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To: dan@engrg.uwo.ca (Dan Corrin), bfwong@ocf.berkeley.edu (Raven Blackburn),
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        fantasci!traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (Joseph "Jo" E Poplawski),
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Subject: TML Bundle #210: Msgs 2578-2591
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From: James T Perkins <jamesp@metolius.wr.tek.com>
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TML Bundles come from the archives of the Traveller Mailing List,
maintained by James Perkins, traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun Jul 14 21:00:23 PDT 1991
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #210: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
2578  11-Jul-91 Cynthia Higginbot more from Steve << The subject says it all. R
2579  11-Jul-91 Cynthia Higginbot Ship Designs pt 1 of many << Here's the first
2580  11-Jul-91 Mike.Metlay@ORGAN Breathing CFCs and building ships << Bart: Th
2581  11-Jul-91 George William He Re: modifications to vehicle design rules << 
2582  11-Jul-91 KELLOGG@ducvax.au Designs and design stuff << Hey Great another
2583  11-Jul-91 KELLOGG@ducvax.au Laser Communicators << Here is a quick questi
2584  11-Jul-91 KELLOGG@ducvax.au K'Kree & Hivers? << A while ago I asked a que
2585  12-Jul-91 Marc Alexandrovic Mercenary Division << Enclosed is a prelim TO
2586  12-Jul-91 Marc Alexandrovic Erm, mistake? << Hello, Bertil, I THINK (corr
2587  12-Jul-91 Mark F. Cook      Breathing CFCs & Hiding meson subs << In note
2588  12-Jul-91 Mark F. Cook      Stable Tech. vs. Stale Tech << In posting 257
2589  12-Jul-91 James T Perkins   Re: Stable Tech. vs. Stale Tech << At the ris
2590  12-Jul-91 KELLOGG@ducvax.au Power Plant Damage? << Hi! Here's one for the
2591  12-Jul-91 James T Perkins   TML Delivery Problems << UK TMLers, and TMLer

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2578
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 91 14:00:54 CDT
From: Cynthia Higginbotham <cynthia@CS.MsState.Edu>
Subject: more from Steve

	The subject says it all.  

Re:  tried and true vs. "modern" stuff.
 
 
I noticed a post recently discussing the relative merits of new technology
versus "tried and true" technology from 150 (plus or minus) years before.
 
 
A novel idea...
 
Can I have a show of hands, please?
 
How many of you all still use horse and buggy for transport?
 
How about those who think the army should use percussion caps?  flintlocks?
 
How many think we should not trust the airplane for at least 60 more years?
 
Any one still using Pony Express?  How about clipper ships?  Horse-drawn
plows?  
 
Come on.  150 year old technology looks like the stone age from today.  Why
should it look any different to the people of the Imperium?
 
Besides, the example was ridiculous.  If the factory has modularized the 150
year old junk, why shouldn't it modularize the new stuff?  Did they forget how
in the last few centuries?
 
 
As to the notion of a perfected design, last time I looked, it took longer to
perfect a design than the useful lifespan of the design.  The next generation
device comes along long before the last was perfected.  Look at AFVs.  For
that matter, the only gun design ever "perfected" was the flintlock.  The
others were superseded before the bugs were worked out.
 
 
Note that the Imperium reached TL15 40 years before the Rebellion.  It reached
TL14 100 years earlier.  I suspect that most of the bugs of most high tech
devices were about as "perfected" as they will get.  After all, the Imperium
is drifting into TL16 now.
 
 
 
BTW, to digress (AGAIN?!?), how many of you have noticed that the history of
the Darrian people, as published in the Darrian module, makes no sense at all?
The assumption that the TL16 starships of the Darrians lasted 2000 years is
ludicrous.  There are rules for TL16 ships, and longevity is not mentioned. 
Therefore the Darrian TL16 squadrons were built in the present era, and
Darrian has been a FUNCTIONALLY TL16 culture for centuries, at least...
 
Food for thought...
 
 
 
                                        Steve H.
                                         (and the kibitzer kibitzed on...)

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2579
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 91 14:17:42 CDT
From: Cynthia Higginbotham <cynthia@CS.MsState.Edu>
Subject: Ship Designs pt 1 of many


	Here's the first of several ship designs; these are all designed using
the modified design rules I posted the other day.  You may want to recalculate
agility to fit your favorite method of figuring agility; the MT method as
written made no sense, so I used the old High Guard definition of Agility.  I
assume that the Imperium has some safety regulations requiring that all ships
have enough emergency power to run a radio and life support in the event of
main power plant failure; therefore all my ship designs will have solar cells,
supplemented by fuel cells if necessary.  I also assume that it is desirable
to be able to conduct EVA in vacuum or unbreathable atmospheres; almost all my
ship designs have 2 or more airlocks.
 
	This ship was the predecessor to the new Donosev Class Scout
Surveyor.  It has seen duty all over the Imperium, and was the workhorse of
the Third (?) Imperial Grand Survey.  Many are available as surplus (at
considerably lower prices) now that the Donosev Class is replacing it.  Note
that it was designed for stealth, the ability to maintain station for a
long time surveying a system, and to carry a large party of scientists/
surveyors.
 
CraftID: Louis & Clark Class Scout Surveyor, TL 13, MCr 149.332
Hull: 450/1125, Disp=500 (600 w/vehicles), Config=7USL, Armor=40F, 
	Unloaded=5073 tons, Loaded=6961 tons
 
Power: 	11/14 Fusion=900 MW, Duration=44/132
	2/2 Fuel Cells=8.1 MW, Duration=3/9
	2/2 Solar Cells=6.65 MW, Duration=indef
 
Loco: 	26/34 Jump=2 (for 600 tons), 98/130 Maneuver=2 G loPowerHiG (for 600
	tons), Agility=2
 
Commo:  Radio=Far orbit x2, Laser=System x2, Maser=System x2
 
Sensors: ActiveEMS=far orbit x2, PassiveEMS=Interstellar x3,
	Densitometer=HiPen x1, Densitometer=LoPen x1, Neutrino Sensor=100 kW x2,
	ActObjScan=Rout, ActObjPin=Rout, PassObjScan=Diff, PassObjPin=Diff,
	PassEngScan=Rout, PassEngPin=Diff
 
Off/Def: Hardpoints=5, Def DM +8
 
Control: ECP, Computer=5x3, Panel=Hololink x90, Special=HeadUp HoloDisp x1,
	Environ=BasicEnv, BasicLS, ExtLS, GravPlates, Airlocks x12
 
Accom:  5x5 (Cb=4, Ce=2, Cm=2, Cf=6, Cs=2, Cd=2), Staterooms=40, HighPsg=10,
	MidPsg=30, SubCraft=Fuel Pinnace, Launch x2, air/raft & assorted
	vehicles x4 (all carried externally)

Other: Cargo=1254.134  kl, Fuel=1750 kl, FuelCell Fuel=15.5 kl, Fuel
	Purifier=30.9 kl/hr, ObjSize=Average, EmLevel=Faint
 
 
	This is the launch designed for the L&C Surveyor ship; it has a very
extensive sensor suite, and is designed to allow a scout crew to stealthily
examine a world for a prolonged period (EMMasking for Stealth, staterooms for
long duration stays, fuel scoops for self-fueling, long-range communications
with mother ship elsewhere in the system, Electronic Circuit Protection for
survivability).
 
CraftID: Scout Launch, Type SQ, TL 13, MCr 9.760 
 
Hull: 	18/45, Disp=20, Config=3SL, Armor=40F,
	Unloaded= 175 tons, Loaded=226 tons
 
Power:	2/2, Fusion=40 MW, Duration=10/30
	2/2, SolarCells=.810 MW, Duration=indef.
 
Loco: 	5/6, Maneuver=2 G lowPowHiG,
	Cruise=750 kph, Top=1000 kph, Agility=2
 
Commo:	radio=far orbit, laser=system, maser=far orbit
 
Sensors: ActiveEMS=far orbit x2, PassiveEMS=interstellar, 
	Densitometer=HiPen/100m, Densitometer=LoPen/50m,
	Neutrino=100 kW, ActObjScan=Rout, ActObjPin=Rout,
	PassObjScan=Diff, PassObjPin=Diff, PassEngScan=Rout,
	PassEngPin=Diff
 
Off/Def: Def DM +5
 
Control: ECP,Computer=1x3, Special=HeadUp HoloDisp,  Environ=BasicEnv,
	BasicLS, ExtLS, GravPlates, Airlocks x2
 
Accom:	Crew=1, Seats=roomy x2, Bunks=1, SmallStaterooms=4
	
Other:	Cargo=50 kl, Fuel=10.667 kl, Scoops, EMM,  ObjSize=Average,
	EMLevel=none
 
 
   The Scout Service standard fuel pinnace, carried by the Louis & Clark. 
Note that the fuel tank is collapsible, and can be stowed out of the way when
not needed, and the hold used for other cargo, as befits the multi-role nature
of most Scout vehicles.
 
CraftID: Louis&Clark Fuel Pinnace, TL 13, MCr 8.855 
 
Hull:	36/90, Disp=40, Config=3SL, Armor=40F, 
	Unloaded=274 tons, Loaded=682 tons
 
Power:	1/2, Fusion=60 MW, Duration=10/30
	1/2, SolarCells=1.62 MW, Duration=indef.
 
Loco:	5/10, Maneuver=2 G LowPowerHiG,
	Cruise=750 kph, Top=1000 kph, Agility=2
 
Commo: 	radio=far orbit, laser=far orbit, maser=far orbit
 
Sensors:ActiveEMS=Far Orbit x2, PassiveEMS=Far Orbit,  Densitometer=LoPen/50m,
	ActObjScan=Rout, ActObjPin=Rout, PassObjScan=Diff, PassObjPin=Diff,
	PassEngScan=Diff
 
Off/Def: Def DM +5
 
Control:Computer=1x3, Special=HeadUp HoloDisp, Environ=BasicEnv,
	BasicLS, ExtLS, GravPlates, Airlocks x2
 
Accom:	Crew=1, Seats=roomy x2, Bunks=1
 
Other:	Cargo=406 kl (note: 400 kl collapsible fuel tank fills 
	hold when full), Fuel=12 kl, Scoops=108 kl/hr,  ObjSize=Average,
	EMLevel=Faint
 
 
    The standard Scout Service open-topped Air/Raft.  Expect to find this as
an auxilary craft on many scout vessels, including the ubiquitous Type S
Scout/Courier.  Note rather different performance between running empty with 1
or 2 passengers and running fully loaded with 11 tons of cargo in the back.
 
Craft ID: Halcyon Four-man Open Air/Raft, TL 13, Cr 492,000
 
Hull: 	1/1, Disp=2, Config=4SL, Armor=6F, Open-top 20%
	Unloaded= 3.038 tons, loaded= 14.272 tons
 
Power: 	1/2, Fusion=0.6 MW, Duration= 20/60
 
Loco:	1/2, LowPowHiG Thrust=17 tons, Avionics
	(loaded) NOE=57 kph, Cruise=171 kph, Top=228 kph
	(unloaded) NOE=170, Cruise=750 kph, Top=1000 kph
	(unloaded, vacuum) NOE=170, Cruise= 2758 kph, Top= 3678 kph
 
Commo:	Radio=far orbit x1, MaserComm=far orbit
 
Sensors: ActEMS=Vdist, PassEMS=Vdist, 
	ActObjScan=Diff, ActObjPin=Diff, PassEngScan=Form
 
Off/Def: Hardpoint x1
 
Control: Computer=Mod 0 x2, Panel=Dynalink x8,
	Environ=BasEnv
 
Accom: 	Crew=1 (driver), seats=adequate x4
 
Other:	Cargo=11.167 kl, Fuel=0.96 kl, 
	ObjSize=small, EMLevel=Moderate
 
 
 
	The standard Scout Service enclosed Air/Raft, also a common auxilary on
those Scout ships needing a vehicle with more protection from the elements
than that afforded by the open-topped Halcyon.
 
Craft ID: Hurakan Four-man Enclosed Air/Raft, TL 13, MCr 1.394
 
Hull: 	1/1, Disp=3, Config=4SL, Armor=10F,
	Unloaded=7 tons, loaded=27 tons
 
Power: 	1/2, Fusion=1.4 MW, Duration=20/60
 
Loco:	1/2, LowPowHiG Thrust=33 tons,
	(loaded) NOE=65 kph, Cruise=194 kph, Top=258 kph
	(unloaded) NOE=170, Cruise=750 kph, Top=1000 kph
	(unloaded, vacuum) NOE=170, Cruise=2445 kph, Top=3260 kph
 
Commo:	Radio=far orbit x1, LaserComm=far orbit, MaserComm=far orbit
 
Sensors: EMMasking, ActEMS=Vdist, PassEMS=Vdist, Dens/LoPen=50m, 
	Neutrino=100 kW,
	ActObjScan=Diff, ActObjPin=Diff, PassObjScan=Diff,
	PassObjPin=Diff, PassEngScan=Diff, PassEngPin=Diff
 
Off/Def: Hardpoint x1
 
Control: Computer=Mod 0 x2, Panel=dynalink x23,  
	Environ=(BasEnv, BasLS)
 
Accom: 	Crew=1 (driver), seats=adequate x4
 
Other:	Cargo=20 kl, Fuel=1.672 kl, HoloRecorder x2,
	ObjSize=small, EMLevel=Faint
 
 
 
 
The Highlander class is a Louis & Clark Class Scout Surveyor modified for
merchant use; in this case, extra armament was added, and the computer was
upgraded.  Note the use of 25MW vehicular Beam Lasers for point defense; in
space, the range is entirely adequate for such use, and it is unnecessary to
use the full power of a 250MW ship's laser to blow up unarmored missiles. 
Also note the use of Fusion Y guns for close-range combat; at the short range
of, say, a boarding attempt, the Y guns are capable of turning the average
(armor 40-60) corsair or pirate's hull into so much Swiss cheese.  
     Also note Darrian computers; listed as 7(fiber-optic) rather than 7fib
because 7fib is a conventional computer with fiber-optic backup and is priced
to reflect the redundancy; Darrian computers are purely fiber optic, no backup
involved.  Note the use of extendible solar panels to increase the level of
"emergency" power, and additional fuel capacity added in the form of external
tanks and a collapsible tank in the hold -- Highlander is intended for
extra-Imperial exploratory trading, a la Leviathan.  Highlander refit designed
by Steve Higginbotham.
 
CraftID: Highlander, Highlander Class Exploratory Merchant , TL 13, MCr 185.45
 
Hull: 450/1125, Disp=500 (600 w/vehicles), Config=7USL, Armor=40F, 
	Unloaded=4816 tons, Loaded=6236 tons
 
Power: 	11/14 Fusion=900 MW, Duration=44/132
	2/2 Fuel Cells=8.1 MW, Duration=3/9
	2/2 Solar Cells=47.15 MW, Duration=indef
	
Loco: 33/44 Jump=3 (for 600 tons), 98/130 Maneuver=2 G loPowerHiG (for 600 
	tons), Agility=2
 
Commo:  Radio=Far orbit x2, Laser=System x2, Maser=System x2
 
Sensors: ActiveEMS=far orbit x2, PassiveEMS=Interstellar x3,
	Densitometer=HiPen x1, Densitometer=LoPen/50m x1, Neutrino Sensor=100 kW
	x2,  ActObjScan=Rout,ActObjPin=Rout, PassObjScan=Diff, PassObjPin=Diff, 
	PassEngScan=Rout, PassEngPin=Diff
 
Off: 	Hardpoints=5,
	Missiles-13=x05,
                    x01
	            x01					
 
	(25MW) Blaser-13=xx5,
		         xx2
		         xx2
							   Auto Danger
Ammo 			Rds 	Pen/Att Dmg  Max Range     Tgts space  Sig
2x3	Blaser-13 25 Mw 0     0   49/4  60  Regional(125)  2      0     L
2x	FY-13	      	0     0   71/5  30  V.Distant(21)  2	         H
 
Def: Def DM +10 / +9
 
	Sandcaster-10=x03,
		      x01,
		      x01
 
 
Control: ECP, Computer=7(fiber-optic)x3, Panel=Hololink x90, Special=HeadUp
	HoloDisp x2, Environ=BasicEnv, BasicLS, ExtLS, GravPlates, Airlocks x12
 
Accom: 5x6 (Cc = 3, Cb=4, Ce=2, Cm=2, Cg=4, Cf=6, Cs=2, Cd=2), Staterooms=40,
	LowBerth=4, EmergLowBerth=1, HighPsg=10, MidPsg=30, SubCraft=Fuel
	Pinnace, Launch x2, air/raft x3, G-Carrier x1 (small vehicles carried   
	internally).
 
Other: 	Cargo= 1000 kl, Fuel= 2000 kl (250 kl of this is carried
	externally), Collapsible Fuel Tank in Cargo hold=1000kl, FuelCell
	Fuel=15.5 kl, Fuel  Purifier=30.9 kl/hr, ObjSize=Average, EmLevel=Faint,
	Extendible Solar  wings (2x 5x50m panels). Computers and controls 
	Made In Darrian
 
				-- Cynthia C. Higginbotham
 

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2580
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 91 16:38:02 EDT
From: Mike.Metlay@ORGAN.MUSIC.CS.CMU.EDU
Subject: Breathing CFCs and building ships

Bart:

That wasn't bogustech they were feeding us in "The Abyss." Oxygenated
chlorofluorocarbons CAN in fact be breathed by living organisms with
no bad aftereffects; they really DID dunk the rat for that scene, although
I'll bet Ed Harris didn't consent to do it himself. |-> In fact, the old
UK TV show "UFO" postulated aliens that breathed CFCs in their space suits
to minimize ballooning in vacuum. It'd make an interesting starship design,
though; a lot like a Dolphin ship but even weirder to live in.... I wonder
if there would be any advantages? 

Cynthia:

I'm going to pass along your ship design suggestions to Dow Rieder, assuming
he didn't save them himself, and the two of us will give them the TDR
white-glove test over RC Cola and Dinty Moore beef stew with corn flakes
on top some evening. I personally rather favor the cheapening of starships,
inasmuch as  it'd explain why so many people own them....

metlay

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2581
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 91 14:44:35 -0700
From: George William Herbert <gwh@ocf.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject: Re: modifications to vehicle design rules


	There are some very simple explanations for why costs stay pretty level
for items... they tend to 8-)
	If you think about it, they really aren't.  For instance, if you get
5 kl of TL15 Fusion Powerplant, it will generate a lot more power than 5 kl of
TL11 plant, though they cost the same.  You can assume that equipment designers
keep increasing sophistication as material costs drop, improving performance
but keeping overall cost about the same.  Most equipment is either constant cost
(implying performance rises with TL) or constant cost per wt/volume, which
indicates fixed performance but decreasing size and cost.  Much of the same...

	As for steel and materials... It's been pointed out that modern steel
isn't that much cheaper in constant-money equivalent than the first mass-
producable bessemer steels.  Most materials don't get cheaper after the first
good mass-production techniques are developed.  Some cheaper, but not a lot.
They get 'cheaper' to use because overall economic levels go up, so that
there's more money to spend on it, but the 'real' cost stays constant.
	Yes, materials will get cheaper, but the most significant impact of this
is when you're talking about right around their introduction.  For about one
TL, they're incredibly expensive (before engineers know how to make it), 
then as TL rises they quickly level off at some reasonable price.  If you 
really want to play with materials, just introduce them at double or triple cost
one tech level early... (see: experimental test craft), or 'pushing the limits
of current technology', always a real popular item with the PR people but less
so with most production engineers 8-)

- - -george william herbert
gwh@ocf.berkeley.edu

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2582
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1991 19:17 CDT
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: Designs and design stuff

Hey Great another vehicle designer with a collection to share!!!!

Fabulous!

Actually, Cynthia, have you checked out the archives of vehicles?  I'm not
certain, but I'm pretty sure that Rob Dean posted a MegaTrav Leviathan
from the GDW adventure.  Before you spend a lot of effort I think you might
take a look at what designs are already available.

I posted a bunch of High guard conversions for Supp 9 Fighting ships, and
other stuff:  Shivva patrol Frigate, plus numerous original stuff.
On the other hand, perhaps the other design nuts might like to compare your
conversions with theirs.  But please by all means send your designs in.

As to your modifications, Here are my OWN opinions, not colloberated by
anyone else.

1)	You are right about control points.  I try to use the lowest TL
at which performance is not affected when calculating Control points.
Therefore:  A jump one drive at TL9 should have the same #CP at TL15.
At TL17 (or something like that) the performance is affected (fuel consumption
drops) therefore calculate CP's with TL 17 as a minimum.  But where
the craft's performance is affected you have to use the higher Tech level.
ie A TL14 ground car with wheels may have the same weight, cost, volume, 
and power consumption, for it's transmission and suspension as a TL9 car,
but it's speed is much faster.  So use TL14 Dig?]

2)	About, Price of components dropping.  Well, I see your point, but
I don't quite agree.  At TL6 hard steel is first used, maybe a TL15 corp
can produce it cheaper, but that money would probably go into a higher
profit margin for the manufacturer.  After all, The consumer is willing to
pay the extra at TL6, so we fix the price and rake in more cash!
	The thing that will really make prices drop is if the company can
make a lot of a certain unit,  Increased volume, decreased cost.
ie.  The one millionth grav unit produced is going to cost less than the
second the company produced.  On the other hand, that cash is again
probably not going to be passed on to the consumer.

So what am I suggesting to you?
Well, If you feel ships are too expensive, then charge less, but I would
make the cheaper ships not generally available.  It is okay to reduce price
for players (hey look at this ship that fell off the back of a jump tender)
Or more likely, they bought one Free Trader out of Ling Standard Products
run of 2000 ships manugfactured.  But calculate them as normal price.

Personally My feeling is that ships are too cheap.  Look at the cost of a
single TL8-9 radar evading bomber:  approx 500 million$, if rate of
exchange is approx 1Cr=1$, then the B-2 cost much more than a lot of starships!

On another note, I think I came up with a possible solution for low cost]
small vehicle computers.  Review the problem:

A TL5 car with a top speed of 100kph, has the same performance as a TL8 car
with same top speed, which presumably has antilock braking, active suspension
etc.

Example:
A car is driving on slick roads toward a wall.
TL 5 car hits the breaks skids and hits wall
TL 8 car hits the breaks (performs identical task roll) skids and hits wall.

According to the rules you have to add a model 1 computer to get a Plus 1
That's almost a million credits for a lousy +1 on the dice!

Suggestion:
A robot brain, with no command or logic program, just enough CPU for a
skill of Vehicle-1,  The computer multiplier would be 1, allowing you to
use linked panels without a big heavy costly computer, as is implied in
101 vehicles to be possible.
The brain isn't big enough to be an autopilot, just sufficient to aid in
controlling the vehicle, somewhat like a fly by wire system.  (note that
in COACC the computer aided fly by wire does not require a computer from the
tables) {if one was required it would have to be three such computers,
because that's how computer aided fly by wire works [at least in the X-29]}

All in all,
Please send your designs!!!
Gotta Run

Mr. Scott

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2583
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1991 23:35 CDT
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: Laser Communicators


Here is a quick question:

When a ship using a laser communicator is firing a sandcaster, won't that
really mess up transmission?

That is the reason I have always used masercoms as opposed to lasercoms.

What are the prevailing opinions?

Mr. Scott

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2584
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1991 23:39 CDT
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: K'Kree & Hivers?


A while ago I asked a question which no one picked up.

Now maybe it wasn't a very interesting question, but the lack of traffic may
indicate a possible answer.

The question was:  Has anyone ever used K'Kree or Hivers successfully as
player characters or even NPC's?

If no one answered, am I to surmise that No one uses them successfully,
actually, that Would be my guess...

Mr. Scott

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2585
From: Marc Alexandrovich Volovic <mav@cs.huji.ac.il>
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 91 03:37:35 PDT
Subject: Mercenary Division


Enclosed is a prelim TOE of a full Mercenary Division.

                                KKMD TO
 
HQ Battalion                            Armour Brigade
  ADA Platoon                             HQ Company
  Intelligence Platoon                    Recce Company
  Signals Platoon                         Air Defence Artillery Company
  Maintenance Platoon                     Combat Engineering Company
  Logistics Company                       Signals Company
  MP Company                              Logistics Company
  Supply Company                          Heavy Armour Battalion
                                          Medium Armour Battalion
                                          Light Armour Battalion
 
Drop Infantry Brigade                   Cavalry Brigade
  HQ Company                              HQ Company
  Recce Company                           Recce Company
  Air Defence Artillery Company           Air Defence Artillery Company
  Combat Engineering Company              Combat Engineering Company
  Signals Company                         Signals Company
  Logistics Company                       Logistics Company
  Drop Battalion                          Cavalry Battalion
  Drop Battalion                          Cavalry Battalion
  Support Battalion                       Light Armour Battalion
 
 
Artillery Battalion                     Heavy Tank Battalion
  Logistics Platoon                       2 Heavy Grav Tank Companies (Laser)
  Signals Platoon                         1 Heavy Grav Tank Company (HV Gun)
  Medium Mass Driver Battery
  Medium Mass Driver Battery            Medium Tank Battalion
  Rocket Battery                          3 Medium Grav Tank Companies
 
Light Armour Battalion                  Support Battalion
  2 Medium Grav Tank Companies            3 Heavy Direct Fire Support Companies
  1 Light Grav Tank Company
 
Drop Battalion                          Cavalry Battalion
  3 Drop Companies                        4 Cavalry Companies
  1 Heavy Direct Fire Support Company     1 Light Grav Tank Company
 
Heavy Mass Driver Battery               Rocket Battery
  8 Scipio 20cm MD guns                   8 Varro 24cm MLRS launchers
  8 Honorius Ammunition Tenders           8 Honorius Ammunition Tenders
 
 
Platoon      Tank  Tndr  CP  ADA  APC  Rce  HDFSV  Drop  MD  MLRS  Sig  ARV
- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tank Hvy(L)    4
Tank Hvy(G)    4     2
Tank Med       4
Tank Lgt       4
Cavalry                             3
Drop                                                 3
HDFS                                           7
ADA                            4
Recce                                   5
MD-FS                2                                    2
MLRS                 2                                         2
Signals                                                             3
CBE                                 3
 
Company      Tank  Tndr  CP  ADA  APC  Rce  HDFSV  Drop  MD  MLRS  Sig  ARV
- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tank Hvy(L)   13          1
Tank Hvy(G)   13     7    1
Tank Med      13          1
Tank Lgt      13          1
Cavalry                   1        10
Drop                      1                    7    10
HDFS                                          21
ADA                       1   13
Recce                                   16
MD-FS                8    1                               8
MLRS                 8    1                                    8
Signals                                                             9
CBE                       1        10
 
Battalion    Tank  Tndr  CP  ADA  APC  Rce  HDFSV  Drop  MD  MLRS  Sig  ARV
- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tank Hvy      40     7    3
Tank Med      40          3
Tank Lgt      40          3
Cavalry       13          5        40
Drop                      3                   21    30
HDFS                                          63
Artillery           24                                  16    8     3
 
Brigade      Tank  Tndr  CP  ADA  APC  Rce  HDFSV  Drop  Sig  ARV  Trk
- - ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Armour       122     7   15   13   10   16                9    24   63
Drop                     12   13   10   16   105    60    9    12   63
Cavalry       66         18   13   90   16                9    12   63
 

Marc A. Volovic
mav@lizardo.huji.ac.il

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2586
From: Marc Alexandrovich Volovic <mav@cs.huji.ac.il>
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 91 03:43:51 PDT
Subject: Erm, mistake?


Hello,

	Bertil, I THINK (correct me, if anything) that your Vargr vehicle
designs have a slight error - 

>VARGR THONGHSUDH ARTILLERY VEHICLE
>  CraftID: Thonghsudh Artillery Vehicle, TL13, MCr 6.874
>     Hull: 116/296, Disp=8, Config=1AF, Armor=40F, Unloaded=147tons, 
>           Loaded=176tons

Unless I am gravely mistaken - Displacement of 8 gives 108kl hull which, in
turn gives 108/15=7.2rounded=8 points to Inoperative. Why is the arty listed
as having 116/296?

Marc

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2587
From: Mark F. Cook <markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.COM>
Subject: Breathing CFCs & Hiding meson subs
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 91 8:47:31 PDT

In note 2580, Metlay writes:

> That wasn't bogustech they were feeding us in "The Abyss." Oxygenated
> chlorofluorocarbons CAN in fact be breathed by living organisms with
> no bad aftereffects; they really DID dunk the rat for that scene, although
> I'll bet Ed Harris didn't consent to do it himself. |-> In fact, the old
> UK TV show "UFO" postulated aliens that breathed CFCs in their space suits
> to minimize ballooning in vacuum. It'd make an interesting starship design,
> though; a lot like a Dolphin ship but even weirder to live in.... I wonder
> if there would be any advantages?

I don't know about advantages, but the one *big* disadvantage is that it
would kill the crew! :-)

Seriously, super-oxygenated CFCs as a breathing medium have been studied
for years (I think Duke U. has been one of the centers for study).  The
rat in "The Abyss" really was breathing fluid.  If a human were to try
the same thing, they'd suffocate.  The problem is one of volume, the
reason a rat can breath fluid while a man can't is the same reason an
ant can carry 30 times it's own weight.  Muscle power drops by the square
of the volume.  For a human to breathe fluid, he/she would have to push
hundreds of times the volume of a rat's lungs worth of fluid in and out
of their human lungs.  The human diaphragm isn't strong enough to do that.
It tests on fluid breathing, rats lived (low enough lung volume), and
dogs died after about 15 minutes (due to muscle spasms in their diaphragms,
caused by exhaustion).  Unless a fluid with a much lower density (one
approaching air) can be found, fluid breathing for humans is strictly in
the realm of SF.

Regarding deep subs a hidden meson gun platforms, I suspect that it's
an exercise in futility after about TL 10.  Even now (what are we? TL 8?),
we can image deep (> 1 mile) ocean currents from LandSat, using thermal
imaging techniques.  (There was great article about this in Scientific
American sometime in the last 2 years, but after over an hour of searching
last night, I couldn't find it.)  If we have this capability now, image
what a TL 15 thermographic scanner/magnetometer combination can do!!
Any H2O ocean will be as transparent as glass.

I think the sub-tectonic meson platform has a better shot at concealment.

Later,

        Mark F. Cook

USMail: User Interface Technical Support
        Hewlett-Packard - Interface Technology Operation
        1000 NE Circle Blvd.  Corvallis, OR 97330

INTERNET: markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.com
          markc%hpcvss.cv.hp.com@relay.hp.com

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2588
From: Mark F. Cook <markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.COM>
Subject: Stable Tech. vs. Stale Tech
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 91 8:57:41 PDT

In posting 2578, Steve Higginbotham points out the absurdity of assuming
that hi-tech societies (at least, those which haven't stagnated) continue
to make wide-spread use of 'century-plus' old technology.

Virtually every SF RPG (and most future SF fiction) artificially 'freeze'
some aspect of technology.  Indeed, most SF futures assume more-or-less
'current' technology with a small number of exceptions (which are usually
part of the 'plot device').  In his novel _Marooned_In_Realtime_, Vernor
Vinge points out that that, given the current rate of technological
advance (which is exponential), the rate at which the human race advances
technologically should 'go vertical' in less than 300 years.  Even he
was forced to introduce a global war in the mid-21st century to slow
the pace for another 200 years.

By the time of the Imperium, the human race (and the technology it relies
on), should be so alien, we would be unable to recognize, let alone
comprehend, it.

As an aside, it should also be pointed out that language and social
evolution follow a similiar (if less accelerated) pattern.  Even assuming
we understood the technology, we would probably be unable to interact
with the culture.

Later,

        Mark F. Cook

USMail: User Interface Technical Support
        Hewlett-Packard - Interface Technology Operation
        1000 NE Circle Blvd.  Corvallis, OR 97330

INTERNET: markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.com
          markc%hpcvss.cv.hp.com@relay.hp.com

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2589
Subject: Re: Stable Tech. vs. Stale Tech 
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 91 10:02:13 PDT
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@metolius.WR>


At the risk of adding flames to the fire, here's my $0.002 (yes, a tenth
of 2 cents) worth.  I'm not meaning to shoot down anyone's ideas, just
sharing in the chin-scratching and bull session.

Mark F. Cook <markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.COM> writes:
> advance (which is exponential), the rate at which the human race advances
> technologically should 'go vertical' in less than 300 years.

One possible problem with Vinge's supposition is that it fails to take
into account that people must apply the technology that has been
discovered, and this takes time.  The biggest limiting factor to the
growth of technology, as I see it, are the factors of societal
communication and understanding.  It takes time for engineers to
incorporate new ideas, it takes time to develop proficiency in their
use, it takes time to bring people up to speed, and large projects where
many new technological advancements are put together have a high risk of
failure.  Look at the failure of the first n Mariner space probes, the
incredible cost of the Space Shuttle, the Sergeant York program, Hubble,
Galileo, the Soviet Mars moon probes, and the NeXT computer.

I feel that, since there is a limited capacity and speed to which humans
can (or WANT to) absorb information and knowledge, and there is a
limited speed with which Systems Technology can be pushed forward, that:

	[[[ James' Maxim of Technology Advancement ]]]

	You can't push technology faster than it can be
	communicated, understood, incorporated, and perfected.

To bring 10,000 worlds, or even 100 along with you, vastly slows the
pace of technology growth, and results in much duplication of effort.
In today's world, even bringing the 50 United States, Europe, and Japan
along with you on a world with instant communication, takes time.  How
many wonderful new ideas have been sitting on desks for 20 years waiting
for the rest of technology to catch up?

Regarding these facts, I've always had a really difficult time believing
that a structure as large as the Imperium could ever exist as a single
political entity - a heavily divided Imperium makes more sense to me
from the standpoint of technological innovation and parallel discovery.

Yes, we are in the age of technological growth.  I see advancements in
complexity going exponential, but I see systems technology growing
linearly.  I see improvements in computer speed growing exponentially,
but the software technology bogging down in complexity management.

What about ceramic high-temperature turbine-powered drive-by-wire
automobiles? One innovation at a time, please! Serial, not parallel
improvement.  New ideas on a proven base.  It's they way human
engineering and technology transfer works.  The human mind has a limited
capacity to absorb and use new ideas.

Enough ramblings and food for thought.  I'm not 100% committed to all
these ideas, the floor is open for discussion...

James

CraftID: Child's Tricycle, TL 15, kCr265  | James T. Perkins 568BB8, 25 years
   Hull: Config=1AF, Armor=10G		  | Traveller Mailing List Adminstrator
  Power: Fusion=1MW, Duration=45/135	  | Homeworld: Earth D867A74-7 Hi R
   Loco: StdGravThrust=1ton, NOE=190kph   | Computer-3, Physics-1, Leader-0,
Off/Def: Pintel:VRFGauss,1600rounds/min	  | Wheeled Vehicle-1, Mechanical-1,
  Accom: Operator=1, Seats=crampedx1	  | Electronics-1, History-0

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2590
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1991 13:18 CDT
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: Power Plant Damage?

Hi!

Here's one for the rules experts...

In highguard and Trav Book 2, it was clear what happened when you hit a
power plant with a ships laser and got a Powerplant-1 result. that was
back when powerplants had 'factors' jsut like jump and manuver drives.

What does it mean now?  The same thing is on the damage tables, but no
explanation of what to do?  How do we determing what the plants 'factor'
is anymore with MegaTrav?

Quriouser and Quriouser
Mr. Scott

Ryke:	Hey do you believe this one?  Married Female Aslan seeks human male
	for an evening of 'exploration'?

Zdeldi:	Well, you know about some Aslan... We... Well...

Ryke:	That doesn't surprise you?

Zdeldi:	I once met a male Aslan who claimed to have slept with every major
	race.

Ryke:	And you believed him?\

Zdeldi:	I'm telepathic.  I knew the truth...  He was lying about the Droyne.
	But the story about the K'Kree..........

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2591
Subject: TML Delivery Problems
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 91 12:49:49 PDT
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@metolius.WR>


UK TMLers, and TMLers in general,  Hello!

We have had a rash of TML delivery problems lately.  This has been
because the Tektronix->Internet gateway machine was not rewriting the
From:, Sender:, and Resent-From: fields to values palatable to the
outside world.  Mail that should have left Tektronix with the address
"jamesp@metolius.wr.tek.com" ended up leaving with the header addresses
"jamesp@metolius.wr".

Some mail sites and gateways outside Tek look upon these most bogus
headers with terror, Just Say No, and throw it in the trashcan icon as
quickly as they can, sending a copy to the local mail admin dude who
gets irate and sends me a complaint.  Other mail transfer programs see
the bad headers, look away in disgust, and forward the mail anyway.
Still others Just Don't Care and send the mail on to the recipient
without a clue that something is rotten.

Anyway, the root cause of the problem, an arcane and slightly wrong
sendmail.cf file at the corporate mail gateway, was band-aided last
night before the digests went out, in a mostly successful attempt to
correct the problem.  This problem had been fixed once before, but like
most computer problems, cleverly figured out how to break itself a
second time.  When the corporate gateway admin returns from vacation
Monday, he will commit a more official fix and try to make sure it
doesn't break itself again.

Thank you all for your patience.  Let the missed-back-issues requests
commence!

James

"Go away, or I shall-a have to-a taunt you a second time"
	-- Monty Python's Search for the Holy Grail

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Traveller Mailing List Administrator	     James T Perkins @ Tektronix, Inc
traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com	     Beaverton, Oregon, USA
uunet!metolius.wr.tek.com!traveller-request  "Load Auto/Evade, Beowulf!"

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
*****************

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To: dan@engrg.uwo.ca (Dan Corrin), bfwong@ocf.berkeley.edu (Raven Blackburn),
        mcknight@f104.n170.z1.fidonet.org (Chuck McKnight),
        fantasci!traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (Joseph "Jo" E Poplawski),
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Subject: TML Bundle #211: Msgs 2592-2599
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Precedence: bulk
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 91 21:00:37 PDT
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@metolius.wr.tek.com>
Status: RO


TML Bundles come from the archives of the Traveller Mailing List,
maintained by James Perkins, traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun Jul 14 21:00:32 PDT 1991
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #211: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
2592  12-Jul-91 Mark F. Cook      Re: Stable Tech. vs. Stale Tech << James Perk
2593  12-Jul-91 "Robert S. Dean"  Miscellaneous Comments << > From: d9bertil@dt
2594  12-Jul-91 William Henry Tim Re: (2580) Breathing CFCs and building ships 
2595  12-Jul-91 James T Perkins   TML->GEnie and aesd.dnet.ge.com << The user w
2596  12-Jul-91 Marc Alexandrovic The ultimate comment on planetary invasions? 
2597  12-Jul-91 KELLOGG@ducvax.au Junk << Hi, I saw a bunch of questions I thin
2598  13-Jul-91 KELLOGG@ducvax.au Meson sites << Hi I don't know about how well
2599  13-Jul-91 George William He More Planetary Defences << Going by my previo

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2592
From: Mark F. Cook <markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.COM>
Subject: Re: Stable Tech. vs. Stale Tech
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 91 13:17:17 PDT

James Perkins (jamesp@metolius.wr.tek.com) writes:

> Mark F. Cook <markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.COM> writes:
> > advance (which is exponential), the rate at which the human race advances
> > technologically should 'go vertical' in less than 300 years.
> 
> One possible problem with Vinge's supposition is that it fails to take
> into account that people must apply the technology that has been
> discovered, and this takes time.  The biggest limiting factor to the
> growth of technology, as I see it, are the factors of societal
> communication and understanding.  It takes time for engineers to
> incorporate new ideas, it takes time to develop proficiency in their
> use, it takes time to bring people up to speed, and large projects where
> many new technological advancements are put together have a high risk of
> failure.

This is only true if the underlying technology needs to be widely
communicated, which may not be the case.  Joe Citizen does not need
to re-learn how to drive a car, just because fuel injection, power
steering, and catalytic convertors get introduced.  A closer example
would be the introduction of RISC architectures in UN*X workstation
SPUs.  While these provide an order-of-magnitude (in some cases)
performance improvement in the computer, only a small sub-set of the
total user base (the system administrators) need any supplemental
training to take advantage of the new technology.  To all the other
users, the change is transparent; their programs just run faster.

If the advances in technology occur in the information and communication
industry, then the rate of increase may go even faster.

>      ...  Look at the failure of the first n Mariner space probes, the
> incredible cost of the Space Shuttle, the Sergeant York program, Hubble,
> Galileo, the Soviet Mars moon probes, and the NeXT computer.

With the possible exception of Galileo and the NeXT computer, these failures
can be directly attributed to mismanagement and political infighting, not
the inability to disseminate new technology.  (This is *not*, however, true
for the Sgt. York.  It was a piece of sh*t from the start.  But I digress...)

> I feel that, since there is a limited capacity and speed to which humans
> can (or WANT to) absorb information and knowledge, and there is a
> limited speed with which Systems Technology can be pushed forward, that:

I don't think you can make a blanket statement about the entire human race
like that and get it to hold water.  While a fundementalist Christian (or
some other individual with strong political, cultural, or religious views)
may say, "I want nothing to do with TV, even though it will make me better
informed, since it can be a corrupting influence and is therefore a tool
of the devil.", a starving Ethiopian would almost certainly embrace radical,
new farming techniques, if the alternative was death from hunger.  Closer
to home, what technophile TML member would not snatch up a new technology
offered to them, if it would make them wealthy or make life easier for
them.  I maintain the once a society becomes comfortable with 'high
technology', it becomes easier to continue to introduce 'higher technology'.

> 	[[[ James' Maxim of Technology Advancement ]]]
> 
> 	You can't push technology faster than it can be
> 	communicated, understood, incorporated, and perfected.

No argument here.  I just think that the new technology is being
communicated, understood, incorporated, and perfected faster all
the time.  I cannot believe that mankind has some inherent 'upper
limit' for accepting these changes.  The limit is cultural, and
since the culture is modified by the new technology, and vice-versa,
I don't see any immediate obstacle to accelerated assimilation.

> To bring 10,000 worlds, or even 100 along with you, vastly slows the
> pace of technology growth, and results in much duplication of effort.
> In today's world, even bringing the 50 United States, Europe, and Japan
> along with you on a world with instant communication, takes time.  How
> many wonderful new ideas have been sitting on desks for 20 years waiting
> for the rest of technology to catch up?

OK, now this is a different story.  I had intended the Vinge example to
apply to a single world.  When you talk about the Imperium, you are suddenly
faced with the light (or jump-6) barrier as an absolute propagation speed
limiter.  Also, one cannot assume that a new technology will be disseminated
planet wide the instant it arrives from space, *unless* it is the latest
in a smooth series of innovations.  However, this is an ideal situation,
and hardly likely to occur.

> Yes, we are in the age of technological growth.  I see advancements in
> complexity going exponential, but I see systems technology growing
> linearly.  I see improvements in computer speed growing exponentially,
> but the software technology bogging down in complexity management.

If the hardware speed can advance, why can't the software's ability to
maximize the performance do likewise?  Just because it hasn't yet doesn't
mean it won't.  As for linear growth, processor speed is currently
increasing geometrically (currently about 2x per year), not linearly.

> What about ceramic high-temperature turbine-powered drive-by-wire
> automobiles? One innovation at a time, please! Serial, not parallel
> improvement.  New ideas on a proven base.  It's they way human
> engineering and technology transfer works.  The human mind has a limited
> capacity to absorb and use new ideas.

Not true!  all three concepts (ceramic engines, turbines, and drive-by-wire)
were developed independently of one another.  None of those ideas had to
wait for any of the others to be perfected before they could work.
Synthesis is the fundemental nature of innovation.  Right now, the only
thing preventing all three concepts from being incorporated in next year's
Chevrolet is one person with a sufficiently large checkbook. :-)

As for the human mind having a limited capacity to absorb and use new
ideas, that may be, but we're nowhere near the limit.  Using a work-
station running X-Windows, I can absorb an order of magnitude more info
today than I could have on an ASCII terminal 5 years ago.  I maintain
that the *true* limiting factor is the efficiency of the data interface.
Vinge agreed with this and postulated a direct mind-machine neural link.
the most efficient way to inform a person is to pump the date directly
into the head, in a fashion that doesn't overwhelm the recipient.  How
one does that is still in the realm of SF, but I believe it *will* take
place, eventually.

Later,

        Mark F. Cook

USMail: User Interface Technical Support
        Hewlett-Packard - Interface Technology Operation
        1000 NE Circle Blvd.  Corvallis, OR 97330

INTERNET: markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.com
          markc%hpcvss.cv.hp.com@relay.hp.com

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2593
Date:     Fri, 12 Jul 91 16:08:29 EDT
From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Miscellaneous Comments




> From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se (Bertil Jonell)
> Subject: (2575) Re: Planetary Invasions Revisited

>> From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
>> Subject: (2555)  Planetary Invasions Revisited

>> Dogfight Phase:  I think that this would be the phase of  deci-
>> sion, and that it would be quite possible for the defender to win 
>> here.  I phrased my suggestion the other way, so I could offer an 
>> opinion  on  the 'mop up'.  I do think that it  would  make  more 
>> sense  for the defender to put everything that will fly into  the 
>> air as early as possible, because I think that the pace of opera-
>> tions will make any imbalance grow rapidly.

>   It depends on if we are using modern air-war as the analogy  or 
> if  we  compare the orbiting ships to modern artillery,  and  the 
> grav-crafts  to  modern  ground forces. It makes  sense  for  the 
> defender  to stay under cover as long as the attacker is  out  of 
> range  of their weapons. I also have my doubts about the   effec-
> tiveness  of small grav-crafts when used against  naval  vessels.  
> Pounding  on the big ships are the tasks of the SDBs,  the  meson 
> pits  and the other space defence installations. The  purpose  of 
> the grav-crafts and other small crafts is to engage the attackers 
> small crafts and grav-crafts when they appear in the atmosphere.

>   As for why the attacker would risk his small crafts before  the 
> defender is totally neutralized, I can only offer two reasons:

>   o  They would want the war over with within a resonable time-
>      frame (To begin invading the next world presumably)

>   o  It is hard to determine *if* the defender is neutralized 
>      unless he is forced to react to something the attacker does.

Well, in my initial post on this subject I was assuming that the 
heavy planetary defenses, meson gun sites and what have you, would
be the main reason that you wouldn't leave your fleet hanging in an
orbit within firing range of the ground.  Instead, you'd send in the
troops and small craft to either force the defenders to respond (and
be destroyed when identified) or track them down and destroy them
one at a time.  Since I figured that the attacker would _not_ have the
substantial orbitting fire support in the early phases of the operation,
so as to keep them from being decimated by the meson guns, I felt that
it would be to the defenders advantage to come up and fight.


>>    Mop-Up:   Are we agreed that infantry would only be  used  for 
>> 'low  intensity'  portions  of the operations?  And  that  ground 
>> forces would be devastatingly outmaneuevered?  (Making the  TL12-
>> 13 tracked tanks in 101 Vehicles a little silly...)

>   Hmm, I tend to include grav-tanks and lift infantry in  'ground 
> forces'.  If  we assume that it is easier to aquire a  target  in 
> free air than one hugging the ground it would be possible to have 
> something looking like ground combat: Both the attackers and  the 
> defenders grav forces can't use their entire potential because if 
> they ventured too high, they would be blown away. The defender by 
> the  attackers orbiting ships, and the attacker by the  defenders 
> space defence lasers installed on every roof.
>  [Gives a whole new dimension to 'Home defence':)]

See above on orbitting attackers prior to neutralization of the heavy 
defenses.  Maybe it would be profitable to think of these things for a
moment as 16" coast artillery, helicopters and helicopter carriers...

I am not including grav equipped forces in with the 'ground' troops 
unless they are dismounted infantry.  I only mention 'pure' ground
troops at all because of the existence of TL12+ tracked tank designs
in the <somewhat less than adequate> 101 Vehicles book from DGP.  If you
are willing to go even a little above NOE you can still get around pretty
fast and therefore avoid having the enemy concentrate against you with
superior mobility to defeat you in detail.

> From: Cynthia Higginbotham <cynthia@CS.MsState.Edu>
> Subject: (2578) more from Steve
> Re:  tried and true vs. "modern" stuff.
 
> BTW, to digress (AGAIN?!?), how many of you have noticed that the 
> history  of the Darrian people, as published in the Darrian  mod-
> ule,  makes no sense at all? The assumption that the  TL16  star-
> ships of the Darrians lasted 2000 years is ludicrous.  There  are 
> rules for TL16 ships, and longevity is not mentioned.   Therefore 
> the  Darrian  TL16 squadrons were built in the present  era,  and 
> Darrian  has been a FUNCTIONALLY TL16 culture for  centuries,  at 
> least...
 
      I hate to be an apologist for the rules, because I think that
some really stupid things have been done over the years, but Darrians
was produced before the MegaTraveller rules, with the first ever TL16+
design information available to us, was on the market.  As a result,
it doesn't have, uh, total forward compatibility.  TL16 was *magic* in
the good old days, much like we'd think of TL21 as we play the game 
now...
 
 
                                        Steve H.
                                         (and the kibitzer kibitzed on...)





------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2594
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 91 17:15:42 -0400 (EDT)
From: William Henry Timmins <wt0b+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: (2580) Breathing CFCs and building ships

An important note: Currently, prolonged breathing of CFCs does terminal
damage to the lungs (causes hemorraghing)

This problem will have to be solved.

An important point- this problem MAY be inherently insolvable.

- - -Me
[Pooh Bear incarnate.]

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2595
Subject: TML->GEnie and aesd.dnet.ge.com
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 91 14:23:31 PDT
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@metolius.WR>


The user whom I thought was having the TML delivered to GEnie was, in
fact, not receiving the TML on GEnie.  So, I don't have any knowledge of
a gateway now.  Someone want to suggest the next course of attack?

James

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2596
From: Marc Alexandrovich Volovic <mav@cs.huji.ac.il>
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 91 15:24:29 PDT
Subject: The ultimate comment on planetary invasions?

 
Hello,
 
  A number of people (including me) have been arguing about planetary
invasion. Without going into the relative merits of deep meson guns
versus orbital defence belts, I would like to pose a number of questions
cum comments, as follows:
 
  The prices of various armaments are just paper money to us, the
vehicle designers and wargamers - what do we care if the Meson-T gun is
MCr3,000 or MCr3,500? However, assuming a limited GPP (Gross Planetary
Product) and a limited defence spending, how many are produced? How many
warships and assault tenders?
 
  The very fact that spending is limited would favour an attacker or
defender who balances the quantity of medium priced combat vehicles with
a quality of high priced combat vehicles (be these vehicles TL9 grav
tanks or TL15 super dreadnoughts). There may be 5 Atlantis battleships
(Robert Dean's Prize Baby :-) in a star system, but a mixed force can
outmaneuver it and perform a planetary landing.
 
  On another hand - a planetary assault may take place WITH THE CONSENT
of the defender - if an attacker finds himself faced with an apparently
impenetrable defence belt, he may just give up the idea of an assault
and accelerate a few medium sized asteroids at the target planet. Thus a
situation similar to a battle of Maldon may arise - the defender
granting battlespace to the attacker.
 
  If the above comments hold true the deciding stage in an invasion
would be how much of the attacking force can the defender destroy before
an engagement on the world surface, but without making him desperate
enough or hurt enough to bombard and jump outsystem. This may or may not
be the fine art of generalship in the future.
 
  The future batlefiled itself depends very much on the concept of
anti-gravity. If it invented (and within Traveller it is assumed so),
filed artillery and infantry will rapidly decline in importance. Indeed,
infantry is losing importance even now, long before even air-cushion
combat vehicles have appeared.
 
  Infantry shall continue to be used in city assaults, police and
security work, shipboard actions and heavily broken areas combat.
Artilley shall probably lose all almost all use except for the most
rapidfiring cannon in light anti-vehicle combat.
 
Yours,

Marc A. Volovic 
Sgt (res)
mav@lizardo.huji.ac.il

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2597
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1991 18:49 CDT
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: Junk

Hi, I saw a bunch of questions I think I can answer

1 the movie with the wierd race of creatures at the bottom of the ocean
and the cloroflorocarbon breathing apparatus was Abyss

2 The movie with the wierd sea monster that kills people for no apparant
reason and bites a JIM diving suit in half was Deep Star Six

3 the movie with the Other weird sea monster that was created by a russian
genetic engineering experiment that kills people for no apparant reason
With Buckaroo Banzi as the star was Leviathan.


But on a more serious note:  Matter Transport in trav.
The subject is addressed in detail in adventure 12 Secret of the Ancients
Basically the Transporter of Star Trek falls into the catagory of 
ancient artifact level of technology.  Frankly, It's just a mite too powerful
a device to be standard equipment on your average type S scout.

There are a few ways of performing Teleportation, but If I remember rightly
they aren't much better than the ordinary Psionic Teleport skill.

Mr. Scott

Speaking of bad movies I just saw Saturn 3:  DUMB Flick
It did have one neat idea though that might be usable in Trav:  at one
point the guy uses a breaching charge which is sprayed out of an aerosol
container.  It struck me as a neat possible weapon.  (keep that can away
from heat or flame!)

And while I'm on the subject of weapons, Has anyone come up with a design
for the good old TL6 support weapon which can take down a guy in battledress

Yes, the old FLame Thrower?

Just rambling

Scotty

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2598
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1991 01:15 CDT
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: Meson sites

Hi

I don't know about how well imaging from landsat works for the bottom of
the ocean, but I will wager that at TL15 any vehicle no matter how
heavily armored will melt in contact with magma.

You need some form of ultra refrigeration to keep your hull from slagging
perhaps you could use the meson gun as a heat dump, but you have to do
some considerable cooling to keep such a sight habitable.  At TL15 I don't
see it happening.  Maybe as an ancient artifact but not TL15.

Good night 1AM

Scotty

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2599
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 91 00:31:19 -0700
From: George William Herbert <gwh@ocf.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject: More Planetary Defences


	Going by my previous example, the price of a installation for a 
deep meson weapon probably approaches that of the weapon itself.
	Given that assumption, it's likely that putting in a lot of mid-sized
(bay) meson sites is a great advantage to the defence...
	IF they have secure and reliable communications.

	Think on this one, a bit... rather than a 'national guard', give
everyone on the planet a combo pack of the following:
	Laser Rangefinder/direction finder (PRIS Binocs do fine)
	Inertial Locator
	x range masercom (determined by other constraints)

	How is this useful?  Well... Mr. Ikaron is sitting on the porch of his
farmhouse when a company of TL14 Zhodani grav tanks flies overhead.  Mr. Ikaron
has the standard Imperial reaction to psionics, and goes into the house to 
check out the news reports and get his 'Designator'.  When he hears static on
the radio AND his cable holovid, he knows something is up.
	Walking outside, he points the masercom at a nearby hill he's been told
has a relay station on it.  Initializing his setup, he then points the 
Designator at the nearest tank and pushes the designate button.
	Within about a hundredth of a second, the 3-d position and speed of
the tank has been transmitted out to the relay site, and in another hundredth
of a second reaches the local deep defense coordination center.  It takes
another hundredth of a second for the computer to process the information,
give it a relatively high priority (being an opportunity target, with no
defences, it a pretty good target).  Less than five-hundredths of a second
after Mr. Ikaron pushed the button, one of 100 hundred-ton sized deep meson
sites has been pre-empted from assault-transport bashing and retargeted 
for the time being on a tank.  It takes all of about a tenth of a second to
retarget and fire.
	Less than a fifth of a second after the button was pushed, the Zho
tank commander sees the 'laser designation' warning light flash on his control
panel, but before he has time to react his tank explodes, only about 10 meters
from the center of a 50 meter radius meson detonation.  There has been no time
to dodge, not even enough time to slew a point-defence weapon to bear on Mr.
Ikarion, who survives.  Scratch nearly 15 megacredits of tank.
	
	And the best part is that that collection of equipment needs not cost
more than about Cr 15,000 .  At TL 15, with standard defense budgets, it
wouldn't take that long to have one in every house...

	Traveller large-scale warfare is simply horrifying.  There are soooo
many ways to kill something...

- - -george william herbert
gwh@ocf.berkeley.edu

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
*****************

From jamesp@metolius.wr.tek.com Mon Jul 15 00:25:29 1991
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To: dan@engrg.uwo.ca (Dan Corrin), bfwong@ocf.berkeley.edu (Raven Blackburn),
        mcknight@f104.n170.z1.fidonet.org (Chuck McKnight),
        fantasci!traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (Joseph "Jo" E Poplawski),
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Subject: TML Bundle #212: Msgs 2600-2601
Reply-To: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Precedence: bulk
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 91 21:00:45 PDT
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@metolius.wr.tek.com>
Status: RO


TML Bundles come from the archives of the Traveller Mailing List,
maintained by James Perkins, traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun Jul 14 21:00:42 PDT 1991
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #212: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
2600  13-Jul-91 Marc Alexandrovic Mercenary Division Vehicles << ENclosed are t
2601  13-Jul-91 Carl Fago         Re: 2583 Laser Communications << > Date: Thu,

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2600
From: Marc Alexandrovich Volovic <mav@cs.huji.ac.il>
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 91 01:19:35 PDT
Subject: Mercenary Division Vehicles


ENclosed are the final versions of the Mercenary Division Vehicles.
Some were redesigned, a number of new designs added and a Phalanx-like
vehicle was inspired by Rob Dean.

                Cyclops Heavy Fire Support Vehicle Mk II
 
 
  The Cyclops HFSV is intended to provide long range, heavy, fire
support for the initial stages of planetary invasions. Carrying enough
armour to withstand hits from all weapons at TL10-13 short of major ship
weaponry, it can engage targets at a range of 50,000km.
 
  The main hull is almost all powerplant, grav unit and fuel. The pilot,
secondary weaponry and other subsystems are distributed among the weapon
turrets. To offset this disadvantage, the control system has been
provided with a large holographic display, which compensates for the
turret rotation automatically.
 
  Despite carrying a power plant capable of lighting a fair sized town,
the space limitations have resulted in a maximum speed of only 720 kph.
This is considered unacceptable by any standard, and a redesign
programme is contemplated.
 
 
  CraftID: Cyclops Heavy Fire Support Vehicle Mk II, TL12, MCr62.5
     Hull: 14/35, Disp=12, Config=1SL+Turret, Armour=70F,
           Unloaded=1792.12 tons, Loaded=1792.91 tons
    Power: 7/14, Fusion=561Mw, Dur=40/120 hrs
     Loco: 5/10, StdGrav=3000 tons, Max=720 kph, Cruise=540 kph, NOE=160 kph
     Comm: Radio=FarOrbit(500,000), Maser=FarOrbit(500,000)
           Channels=T-Radio*12, T-Maser*12, R-Radio*144, R-Maser*144
           Panels=CompLinked(Transmit/Receive)*12
  Sensors: EMM, EMSActive=FarOrbit(500,000), EMSJammer=FarOrbit(500,000)
           EMSPassive=Substellar(100,000 au), ActObjScan=Routine,
           ActObjPin=Routine, PassEnScan=Routine
      Off: Hardpoints=1
 
                       Pen/          Max     Auto   Dngr
                 Ammo  Attn    Dmg   Range   Tgts   Spc    Sig   ROF
  --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Plasma Gun        -    88/5    800  Planet     -     45     H     30
1Mw Beam Laser * 5     10/2      5  Dist(5)    2      3     H     40
 
      Def: Sandcaster*50, indepenent PD targeting for all lasers
  Control: Comp=5, LargeHoloDisplay, ECP
    Accom: Crew=1 (Pilot/Operator), SeatExtOccRoomy, basic env, basic ls
           extended ls, grav plates, inertial comp
    Other: Fuel=8.28kl, ObjSize=Avg, Emlevel=Faint
 
 
                          Daisun Drop APC Mk I
 
 
  The landing of infantry on a hostile world is an endeavor wrought with
danger, an endeavor the Daisun APC is designed to cope with. Carrying an
infantry squad in a heavily armoured hull this APC is able to enter the
atmosphere from orbit and bring the soldiers to world surface in face of
hostile opposition.
 
  In recent operations, two problems came to be regarded as of highest
importance - the lack of PD capable weapon and the small weapon load.
These were rectified and the new model, Daisun Mk IIx is now in the
pre-production testing stages.
 
  The name 'Daisun' means 'Enemy.'
 
 
  CraftID: Daisun Drop APC Mk I, TL12, Mcr
     Hull: 19/46, Disp=20, Config=1AF, Armour=70F, Unloaded=1946.702 tons
           Loaded=1948.967 tons
    Power: 6/12, Fusion=507Mw, Dur=2/6
     Loco: 7/14, StdGrav=5000 tons, Max=1731 kph, Cruise=1299 kph, NOE=160 kph
     Comm: Radio=FarOrbit(500,000), Maser=FarOrbit(500,000),
  Sensors: EMSActive=FarOrbit(500,000), EMSJammer=FarOrbit(500,000),
           EMSPassive=Substellar(100,000 au), ActObjScan=Routine,
           ActObjPin=Routine, PassEnScan=Routine
      Off: Hardpoints=1
 
             Missile=xx2
                Batt   1
                Bear   1
 
      Def: Sandcaster*100
  Control: Comp=5, LargeHoloDisplay, ECP
    Accom: Crew=1 (Pilot/Gunner), Seats=Roomy, Passengers=Roomy*8, basic env,
           basic ls, grav plates, inertial comp
    Other: Fuel=12.168kl, Magazine=27 bat-rds, ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=Faint
 
 
                        Banshee Signals Vehicle
 
 
  The Banshee is a member of the Wraith family of vehicles designed to
serve as a fast and mobile signals unit. Equipped with a very extensive
sensor and communication suite but light armour, the Banshee is not
intended to participate in TTT (tank to tank) engagements, but to follow
the battle from a distance and to provide communication and sensor
services for the main force. One model 1/bis computer is dedicated to
communications routing an can supervise, route and operationally
integrate 144 channels simultaneously.
 
  Weapons, installed in a remote turret, are intended for point defence
and AP fire. The three lasers are co-axial and are governed by a single
point defence targeter. There is enough excess computer power and power
supply (14 MW) to replace the weapon suite with more powerful weapons,
if desired.
 
 
  CraftID: Banshee Mark 1 Signals Vehicle, TL12, MCr10.041
     Hull: 4/10, Disp=4, Config=1AF+Turret, Armour=20F, Loaded=89.302 tons,
           Unloaded=88.8473 tons
    Power: 1/2, Fusion=84MW, Dur=150/450 hrs
     Loco: 1/2, StdGrav=500 tons, Max=3276 kph, Cruise=2457 kph,
           NOE=160 kph
     Comm: Radio=FarOrbit(500,000)*3, Laser=FarOrbit(500,000)*3,
           Maser=FarOrbit(500,000)*3,
           Channels=T-Radio*36, T-Laser*36, T-Maser*36, R-Radio*432,
           R-Laser*432, R-Maser*432
           Panels=CompLinked(Transmit/Receive)*144
  Sensors: EMM, EMSActive=FarOrbit(500,000), EMSPassive=Interstellar(2 par),
           EMSJammer=FarOrbit(500,000), LowPenDensiometer=1m,
           NeutrinoSensor=1Mw, ActObjScan=Routine, ActObjPin=Routine,
           PassObjScan=Diff, PassObjPin=Form, PassEnScan=Routine,
           PassEnPin=Form
      Off: Hardpoints=1
 
                       Pen/          Max     Auto   Dngr
                 Ammo  Attn    Dmg   Range   Tgts   Spc    Sig   ROF
  --------------------------------------------------------------------------
3*5MW Beam Laser   -   28/3     10  Vdist(25)  2     4.5    H     40
 
      Def: Sandcaster*30, Point Defence targeting
  Control: Comp=1/bis*3, HUD*3
    Accom: Seats=Roomy*3 (Commander, Driver, Gunner), Basic env, basic ls
           grav plates, inertial compensators
    Other: Fuel=6.200kl, ObjSize=Small, EmLevel=Faint
 
                         Duergar Heavy Grav Tank
 
 
  The Duergar is a member of the Wraith family of vehicles. Developed to
complement Zombie tanks, mainly in engagements with heavy use of
anti-laser means, it is equipped with a 140mm cannon. Removal of the
laser armament allowed a significant decrease in power requirement,
resulting in the maximum speed increase of more than 18% and endurance
increase of 26%. For AP and PD fire, a rapid pulse plasma gun has been
installed in an independent barbette.
 
 
  CraftID: Duergar Heavy Grav Tank, TL12, MCr10.03
     Hull: 4/10, Disp=4, Config=1AF+Turret, Armour=60F,
           Loaded=294.528 tons, Unloaded=290.227 tons
    Power: 2/4, Fusion=96MW, Dur=42/126 hrs
     Loco: 2/4, StdGrav=800 tons, Max=1950 kph, Cruise=1462 kph,
           NOE=160 kph
     Comm: Radio=FarOrbit(500,000), Maser=FarOrbit(500,000)
           Channels=T-Radio*12, T-Maser*12, R-Radio*144, R-Maser*144
           Panels=CompLinked(Transmit/Receive)*24
  Sensors: EMM, EMSActive=Planetary(50,000), EMSPassive=Substellar(100,000 au),
           EMSJammer=Planetary(50,000), ActObjScan=Diff, ActObjPin=Diff,
           PassEnScan=Routine
      Off: Hardpoints=1
 
                       Pen/          Max     Auto   Dngr
                 Ammo  Attn    Dmg   Range   Tgts   Spc    Sig   ROF
  --------------------------------------------------------------------------
14cm HV Gun       80   -----------------(see below)-----------------
      HE                23      18  VDist(24)        50     M     9
      HEAP              48      14  VDist(24)               M     9
      KEAP              37      14  VDist(24)               M     9
      KEAPER            37      16  VDist(24)               M     9
      Flechette         23       3  VDist(24)       150     M     9
      Illum                         VDist(24)       115     M     9
RPA-12            -    44/5     20 VDist(5.1)  2            H    40
 
      Def: Sandcaster*30, Point Defence targeting for RPA-12
  Control: Comp=1bis*2, HUD*2
    Accom: Seats=Roomy*2 (Commander/Gunner Driver), Basic env, basic ls
           grav plates, inertial compensators
    Other: Fuel=2.0096kl, ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=Faint
 
                           Ghost ADA Vehicle
 
 
  The Ghost, a member of the Wraith family of vehicles, is intended to
supplement a mobile task force and provide it with PD and AP fire. Five
lasers, each with its own point defence targeter in an independent
barbette can engage targets at short and medium ranges. Unlike the other
non-tank versions of the Wraith, the Ghost class vehicles are intended
to take part in TTT engagements and retain the full tank armour.
 
  The Ghost has enough spare power (8.7MW) to augment its weapon or
sensor suite, as needed.
 
 
  CraftID: Ghost Mark 1 ADA Vehicle, TL12, MCr16.054
     Hull: 4/10, Disp=4, Config=1AF+Turret, Armour=52F, Loaded=180.054 tons,
           Unloaded=179.571 tons
    Power: 1/2, Fusion=84MW, Dur=165/496 hrs
     Loco: 1/2, StdGrav=500 tons, Max=1593 kph, Cruise=1194 kph,
           NOE=160 kph
     Comm: Radio=FarOrbit(500,000), Maser=FarOrbit(500,000),
           Channels=T-Radio*12, T-Maser*12, R-Radio*144, R-Maser*144
           Panels=CompLinked(Transmit/Receive)*24
  Sensors: EMM, EMSActive=Planetary(50,000), EMSPassive=Substellar(100,000 au),
           EMSJammer=Planetary(50,000), ActObjScan=Diff, ActObjPin=Diff,
           PassEnScan=Routine
      Off: Hardpoints=1
 
                       Pen/          Max     Auto   Dngr
                 Ammo  Attn    Dmg   Range   Tgts   Spc    Sig   ROF
  --------------------------------------------------------------------------
2*10MW Pulse Laser -   30/3     10  Vdist(25)  3     4.5    H     80
3*1MW Beam Laser   -   10/2      5  Dist(5)    2     3.0    H     40
 
      Def: Sandcaster*30, Point Defence targeting for all weapons
  Control: Comp=2/bis*2, HUD*3
    Accom: Seats=Roomy*3 (Commander, Driver, Gunner), Basic env, basic ls
           grav plates, inertial compensators
    Other: Fuel=6.8988kl, ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=Faint
 
 
                         Selkie Light Grav Tank
 
 
  The Selkie, designated light only because of its armament, is a
development of the Wraith grav tank. The weapons are installed in a
remote turret and the crew is inside the hull. The Wraith design has
been copied even to the point of carrying a heavy fusion gun and a laser
but the decreased power requirement of the Selkie allowed a bigger grav
unit to be installed and thus the speed has been drastically increased.
 
 
  CraftID: Selkie Mark 1 Light Grav Tank, TL12, MCr12.1
     Hull: 4/10, Disp=4, Config=1AF+Turret, Armour=52F,
           Loaded=187.62 tons, Unloaded=187.93 tons
    Power: 2/4, Fusion=93Mw, Dur=4/12 days
     Loco: 1/2, StdGrav=600 tons, Max=2280 kph, Cruise=1710 kph,
           NOE=160 kph
     Comm: Radio=FarOrbit(500,000), Maser=FarOrbit(500,000)
           Channels=T-Radio*12, T-Maser*12, R-Radio*144, R-Maser*144
           Panels=CompLinked(Transmit/Receive)*24
  Sensors: EMM, EMSActive=Planetary(50,000), EMSPassive=Substellar(100,000 au),
           EMSJammer=Planetary(50,000), ActObjScan=Diff, ActObjPin=Diff,
           PassEnScan=Routine
      Off: Hardpoints=1
 
                       Pen/          Max     Auto   Dngr
                 Ammo  Attn    Dmg   Range   Tgts   Spc    Sig   ROF
  --------------------------------------------------------------------------
25Mw Beam Laser   -    47/4     50  Rgnl(125)  2    30.0    H     40
FX-12 Fusion Gun  -    67/5     30  VDist(18)  2    45.0    H     40
0.5Mw Beam Laser        5/2      4  Dist(2.5)  2     1.5    H     40
 
      Def: Sandcaster*30, Point Defence targeting
  Control: Comp=1/bis*2, HUD, COmpLinked*6
    Accom: Seats=Roomy*3 (Commander, Driver, Gunner), Basic env, basic ls
           grav plates, inertial compensators
    Other: Fuel=4.3733kl, ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=Faint
 
 
                           Wisp Recce Vehicle
 
 
  A member of the Wraith family, the Wisp is mainly employed in recce
companies. It retains the sensor suite of the Wraith tanks, but the
downgraded weapons and armour provide a significant drop in weight and a
commensurate increase in speed.
 
  The Wisp is not intended for TTT (tank to tank) engagements. It is
used to engage mechanized infantry vehicles or serve as perimeter or
flanking force. Enough spare power (6.75MW) is retained to augment the
weapon or the sensor suite as needed.
 
 
  CraftID: Wisp Mark 1 Recce Vehicle, TL12, MCr7.516
     Hull: 4/10, Disp=4, Config=1AF+Turret, Armour=26F, Loaded=92.52 tons
           Unloaded=91.82 tons
    Power: 1/2, Fusion=84MW, Dur=10/30
     Loco: 1/2, StdGrav=500 tons, Max=3060 kph, Cruise=2295 kph,
           NOE=160 kph
     Comm: Radio=FarOrbit(500,000), Maser=FarOrbit(500,000)
           Channels=T-Radio*12, T-Maser*12, R-Radio*144, R-Maser*144
           Panels=CompLinked(Transmit/Receive)*24
  Sensors: EMM, EMSActive=Planetary(50,000), EMSPassive=Substellar(100,000 au),
           EMSJammer=Planetary(50,000), ActObjScan=Diff, ActObjPin=Diff,
           PassEnScan=Routine
      Off: Hardpoints=1
 
                       Pen/          Max     Auto   Dngr
                 Ammo  Attn    Dmg   Range   Tgts   Spc    Sig   ROF
  --------------------------------------------------------------------------
25MW Beam Laser    -   47/4     50  Rgnl(125)  2    30.0    H     40
 
      Def: Sandcaster*30, Point Defence targeting for laser
  Control: Comp=1/bis*2, HUD*2
    Accom: Seats=Roomy*3 (Commander, Driver, Gunner), Basic env, basic ls
           grav plates, inertial compensators
    Other: Fuel=10.08, Cargo=0.3620kl, ObjSize=Small, EmLevel=Faint
 
 
                        Wraith Medium Grav Tank
 
 
  The Wraith was designed as a heavily armed medium tank. Weapons are
installed in a remote turret, the crew - inside the hull. Standard
doctrine calls for use of the laser for long range fire and for the
fusion gun for medium range or closer. Indeed, the laser and fusion gun
cannot fire simultaneously. The 0.5MW laser is operated by the commander
from inside the hull and fires in a 70 degree arc forward.
 
  An extensive sensor and computer suite allowed the designers to
simplify the control system of the craft even beyond the existing level,
up to and including removal of the commander, but most customers prefer
to settle for a lower endurance and larger crew in order to retain the
tactical advantage accorded by a tank commander.
 
 
  CraftID: Wraith Mark 1 Medium Grav Tank, TL12, MCr9.03
     Hull: 4/10, Disp=4, Config=1AF+Turret, Armour=52F,
           Loaded=193.1273 tons, Unloaded=192.6303 tons
    Power: 2/4, Fusion=105MW, Dur=129/388 hrs
     Loco: 1/2, StdGrav=500 tons, Max=1431 kph, Cruise=1073 kph,
           NOE=160 kph
     Comm: Radio=FarOrbit(500,000), Maser=FarOrbit(500,000)
           Channels=T-Radio*12, T-Maser*12, R-Radio*144, R-Maser*144
           Panels=CompLinked(Transmit/Receive)*24
  Sensors: EMM, EMSActive=Planetary(50,000), EMSPassive=Substellar(100,000 au),
           EMSJammer=Planetary(50,000), ActObjScan=Diff, ActObjPin=Diff,
           PassEnScan=Routine
      Off: Hardpoints=1
 
                       Pen/          Max     Auto   Dngr
                 Ammo  Attn    Dmg   Range   Tgts   Spc    Sig   ROF
  --------------------------------------------------------------------------
50MW Beam Laser   -    55/4    100  Rgnl(250)  2    45.0    H     40
FX-12 Fusion Gun  -    67/5     30  VDist(18)  2    45.0    H     40
1MW Beam Laser    -    10/2      5  Dist(5)    2     3.0    H     40
0.5MW Beam Laser  -     5/2      4  Dist(2.5)  2     1.5    H     40
 
      Def: Sandcaster*30, Point Defence targeting for the 1MW laser
  Control: Comp=1/bis*2, HUD*2
    Accom: Seats=Roomy*3 (Commander, Driver, Gunner), Basic env, basic ls
           grav plates, inertial compensators
    Other: Fuel=6.8988kl, ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=Faint
 
 
                         Zombie Heavy Grav Tank
 
 
  The Zombie is a member of the Wraith family of vehicles and is
equipped with maximum armour available at the tech level. An increased
armour fit required a more extensive grav unit to maintain speed on par
with the Wraith and the weapon fit is sparser in order to conserve
weight, space and power. Because of the increased weight, duration
suffers a marked decrease.
 
  As in the Wraith, the laser is installed are in a remote turret. The
extensive sensor and computer suite allows two persons to operate the
tank. For crew convenience, roomy seats are provided.
 
 
  CraftID: Zombie Mark 1 Heavy Grav Tank, TL12, MCr10.845
     Hull: 4/10, Disp=4, Config=1AF+Turret, Armour=60F,
           Loaded=310.688 tons, Unloaded=310.547 tons
    Power: 2/4, Fusion=129MW, Dur=31/93 hrs
     Loco: 2/4, StdGrav=760 tons, Max=1431 kph, Cruise=1073 kph,
           NOE=160 kph
     Comm: Radio=FarOrbit(500,000), Maser=FarOrbit(500,000)
           Channels=T-Radio*12, T-Maser*12, R-Radio*144, R-Maser*144
           Panels=CompLinked(Transmit/Receive)*24
  Sensors: EMM, EMSActive=Planetary(50,000), EMSPassive=Substellar(100,000 au),
           EMSJammer=Planetary(50,000), ActObjScan=Diff, ActObjPin=Diff,
           PassEnScan=Routine
      Off: Hardpoints=1
 
                       Pen/          Max     Auto   Dngr
                 Ammo  Attn    Dmg   Range   Tgts   Spc    Sig   ROF
  --------------------------------------------------------------------------
50MW Beam Laser   -    55/4    100  Rgnl(250)  2    45.0    H     40
 
      Def: Sandcaster*30, Point Defence targeting for the laser
  Control: Comp=1/bis*2, HUD*2
    Accom: Seats=Roomy*2 (Commander/Gunner Driver), Basic env, basic ls
           grav plates, inertial compensators
    Other: Fuel=2.0096kl, ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=Faint
 
                         Cato Command Post APC
 
 
  Designed to operate as mobile command posts for any vehicle or
infantry formations, the Cato command post APCs are nevertheless an
unfinished design. It has not been decided what to do with some 28kl of
space and these were left unused for future expansions.
 
  Command and Control functions are assisted by the most powerful
computer possible, which also accounts for 84% of the vehicle cost. The
weapon fit is minimal in order to conserve power while maintaining high
speed.
 
  It has been noted in recent operations that 4 men on command staff is
not always enough and there are now plans to increase the power supply
of the craft, the locomotion section and install two additional roomy
seats. This will, at least partially, employ the empty space.
 
 
  CraftID: Cato Command Post APC, TL12, MCr22.93
     Hull: 8/18, Disp=8, Config=1AF, Armour=40F, Unloaded=111.669 tons
           Loaded=112.667 tons
    Power: 1/2, Fusion=40MW, Dur=20/60
     Loco: 1/2, StdGrav=320 tons, Max=1950 kph, Cruise=1462 kph, NOE=160 kph
     Comm: Radio=FarOrbit(500,000), Laser=FarOrbit(500,000),
           Maser=FarOrbit(500,000)
           Channels=T-Radio*12, T-Maser*12, T-Laser*12, R-Radio*144,
           R-Maser*144, R-Laser*144
           Panels=CompLinked(Transmit/Receive)*72
  Sensors: EMM, EMSActive=Cont(5000), EMSPassive=Cont(5000),
           ActObjScan=Diff, ActObjPin=Diff, PassEnScan=Form
      Off: Hardpoints=1
 
                       Pen/          Max     Auto   Dngr
                 Ammo  Attn    Dmg   Range   Tgts   Spc    Sig   ROF
  --------------------------------------------------------------------------
5MW Beam Laser     -   28/3     10  VDist(25)  2     4.5    H     40
 
      Def: Sandcaster*10
  Control: Comp=6*2, LargeHoloDisplay
    Accom: Seats=Roomy*2 (Driver, Commander), Seats=Roomy*4, basic env
           basic ls, grav plates, inertial comp
    Other: Fuel=14.4kl, Cargo/Empty=28.384kl, ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=Faint
 
                            Corbulo Grav APC
 
 
  The Corbulo APC is intended to carry an infantry squad into battle
while providing a reasonable protection from light anti vehicle fire.
Three light lasers and a plasma gun are pintle mounted - two over the
infantry compartment and one laser and the plasma gun together over the
commander's position. The plasma gun, when firing, pre-empts power from
the lasers. The fighting compartment is provided with firing ports and
roomy seats to allow easy carriage of fully equipped infantry. Field
reports indicate that the vehicle is underpowered, and studies are now
conducted with a vehicle equipped with a 250 ton grav unit. This vehicle
model has not yet been manufactured in great quantities.
 
 
  CraftID: Corbulo Grav APC, TL12, MCr3.738
     Hull: 8/18, Disp=8, Config=1AF, Armour=40F, Unloaded=105.541 tons,
           Loaded=114.905 tons
    Power: 1/2, Fusion=40MW, Dur=30/90
     Loco: 1/2, StdGrav=200 tons, Max=840 kph, Cruise=630 kph, NOE=160 kph
     Comm: Radio=FarOrbit(500,000), Maser=FarOrbit(500,000)
           Channels=T-Radio*12, T-Maser*12, R-Radio*144, R-Maser*144
           Panels=CompLinked(Transmit/Receive)*24
  Sensors: EMM, EMSActive=Cont(5000), EMSPassive=Cont(5000),
           ActObjScan=Diff, ActObjPin=Diff, PassEnScan=Form
      Off: Hardpoints=1
                       Pen/          Max     Auto   Dngr
                 Ammo  Attn    Dmg   Range   Tgts   Spc    Sig   ROF
  --------------------------------------------------------------------------
3*5MW Beam Laser   -   28/3     10  VDist(25)  2     4.5    H     40
PB-12 Plasma Gun   -   54/5     20  VDist(7.8) 2    30      H     40
 
      Def: Sandcaster*10
  Control: Comp=0bis*2, HUD, DynLinked*5
    Accom: Seats=Roomy*2 (Driver, Commander), Seats=Roomy*12, basic env
           basic ls, grav plates, inertial comp
    Other: Fuel=21.6kl, Cargo=7.852kl, ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=Faint
 
                     Fabius Mark I Support Purifier
 
 
  The Fabius support purifier is yet another member of the Corbulo
family. In order to accommodate the minimum size of purifier speed was
sacrificed to an almost an unacceptable degree. The purifier can
replenish a Flavius type tanker in six and a half hours.
 
  The reason for retaining armour remains unclear, since these craft are
not supposed to operate in a TTT engagement.
 
 
  CraftID: Fabius Mark I Support Purifier, TL12, MCr3.3
     Hull: 8/18, Disp=8, Config=1AF, Armour=40F,
           Unloaded=155.232 tons, Loaded=155.76 tons
    Power: 1/2, Fusion=24MW, Dur=13/39
     Loco: 1/2, StdGrav=200 tons, Max=300 kph, Cruise=225 kph, NOE=75 kph
     Comm: Radio=FarOrbit(500,000), Maser=FarOrbit(500,000)
           Channels=T-Radio*12, T-Maser*12, R-Radio*144, R-Maser*144
           Panels=CompLinked(Transmit/Receive)*12
  Sensors: EMM, EMSActive=Cont(5000), EMSPassive=Cont(5000), HvyRobotArm,
           LightRobotArm, ActObjScan=Diff, ActObjPin=Diff, PassEnScan=Form
      Off: Hardpoints=1
 
                       Pen/          Max     Auto   Dngr
                 Ammo  Attn    Dmg   Range   Tgts   Spc    Sig   ROF
  --------------------------------------------------------------------------
2MW Pulse Laser    -   12/2     5   Dist(5)    3     3      H     80
 
      Def: Sandcaster*10
  Control: Comp=0bis*2, HUD
    Accom: Seats=Roomy (Driver/Operator), basic env, basic ls, grav plates,
           inertial comp
    Other: Fuel=7.512kl, Purifier=80kl/6hrs, ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=Faint
 
                         Flavius Combat Tanker
 
 
  This example of the Corbulo vehicle family is intended to operate in
concert with the Fabius series support purifiers. The extensive fuel
tank is augmented with four refuelling probes. Refuelling probes are
extended at the operators command and the refuelling process itself is
the responsibility of the daughter craft.
 
 
  CraftID: Flavius Combat Tanker, TL12, MCr3.3
     Hull: 8/18, Disp=8, Config=1AF, Armour=40F,
           Unloaded=91.232 tons, Loaded=97.3579 tons
    Power: 1/2, Fusion=24MW, Dur=10/30
     Loco: 1/2, StdGrav=200 tons, Max=1200 kph, Cruise=900 kph, NOE=160 kph
     Comm: Radio=FarOrbit(500,000), Maser=FarOrbit(500,000)
           Channels=T-Radio*12, T-Maser*12, R-Radio*144, R-Maser*144
           Panels=CompLinked(Transmit/Receive)*12
  Sensors: EMM, EMSActive=Cont(5000), EMSPassive=Cont(5000), HvyRobotArm,
           LightRobotArm, ActObjScan=Diff, ActObjPin=Diff, PassEnScan=Form
      Off: Hardpoints=1
 
                       Pen/          Max     Auto   Dngr
                 Ammo  Attn    Dmg   Range   Tgts   Spc    Sig   ROF
  --------------------------------------------------------------------------
2MW Pulse Laser    -   12/2     5   Dist(5)    3     3      H     80
 
      Def: Sandcaster*10
  Control: Comp=0bis*2, HUD
    Accom: Seats=Roomy (Driver/Operator), basic env, basic ls, grav plates,
           inertial comp
    Other: Fuel=5.76kl, AuxFuel=81.752kl, RefuellingProbes*4, ObjSize=Small,
           EmLevel=Faint
 
                       Honorius Ammunition Tender
 
 
  This example of the Corbulo vehicle family is intended to resupply
Scipio and Varro artillery vehicles. Capable of carrying 2.5 loads of a
Varro MLRS or 1.65 loads of Scipio GravArty, the Honorius suffers less from
the limitations of the power supply and locomotion systems than the
Fabius Purifier, but is still rather slow. The need for a second
crew-member to man the AP laser and carry out resupply while moving has
been noted and plans to augment the vehicle with a manned turret are
afoot.
 
 
  CraftID: Honorius Ammunition Tender, TL12, MCr3.3
     Hull: 8/18, Disp=8, Config=1SL, Armour=40F,
           Unloaded=91.232 tons, Loaded=131.358 tons
    Power: 1/2, Fusion=24MW, Dur=10/30
     Loco: 1/2, StdGrav=200 tons, Max=600 kph, Cruise=450 kph, NOE=150 kph
     Comm: Radio=FarOrbit(500,000), Maser=FarOrbit(500,000)
           Channels=T-Radio*12, T-Maser*12, R-Radio*144, R-Maser*144
           Panels=CompLinked(Transmit/Receive)*12
  Sensors: EMM, EMSActive=Cont(5000), EMSPassive=Cont(5000), HvyRobotArm,
           LightRobotArm, ActObjScan=Diff, ActObjPin=Diff, PassEnScan=Form
      Off: Hardpoints=1
 
                       Pen/          Max     Auto   Dngr
                 Ammo  Attn    Dmg   Range   Tgts   Spc    Sig   ROF
  --------------------------------------------------------------------------
2MW Pulse Laser    -   12/2     5   Dist(5)    3     3      H     80
 
      Def: Sandcaster*10
  Control: Comp=0bis*2, HUD
    Accom: Seats=Driver (Driver/Operator), basic env, basic ls, grav plates,
           inertial comp
    Other: Fuel=5.76kl, ObjSize=Small, EmLevel=Faint, AmmoLoad=210*24cm
           rockets or 660*20cm MD rounds
 
 
                Paullus Heavy Armoured Recovery Vehicle
 
 
  Member of the Corbulo family, the Paullus armoured recovery and
battlefield repair vehicles are intended to support any combat craft up
to 800 tons in weight. A heavy grav unit and an array of heavy robot arms
allows the Paullus to carry other craft clamped under it. Other,
simpler, repairs may be made from inside the vehicle using the light and
medium robotic arms. A sizable quantity of spare parts and complete
field-installable modules may be carried without loss of performance.
 
  The 2MW laser is manned by the chief recovery operator.
 
 
  CraftID: Paullus Heavy Armoured Recovery Vehicle, TL12, MCr8.2453
     Hull: 8/18, Disp=8, Config=1AF, Armour=40F,
           Unloaded=185.303 tons, Loaded=212.9624 tons
    Power: 2/4, Fusion=126MW, Dur=10/30
     Loco: 2/4, StdGrav=1200 tons, LoadedMax=3640 kph, LoadedCruise=2730 kph,
           ClampLoad=100 tons: Max=2720 kph, Cruise=2040 kph
           ClampLoad=200 tons: Max=2065 kph, Cruise=1548 kph
           ClampLoad=300 tons: Max=1560 kph, Cruise=1170 kph
           ClampLoad=400 tons: Max=1149 kph, Cruise=861 kph
           ClampLoad=500 tons: Max=819 kph, Cruise=614 kph
           ClampLoad=600 tons: Max=571 kph, Cruise=428 kph
           ClampLoad=877 tons: Max=120 kph, Cruise=90 kph
     Comm: Radio=FarOrbit(500,000), Maser=FarOrbit(500,000)
           Channels=T-Radio*12, T-Maser*12, R-Radio*144, R-Maser*144
           Panels=CompLinked(Transmit/Receive)*12
  Sensors: EMM, EMSActive=Cont(5000), EMSPassive=Cont(5000), HvyRobotArm*4
           MediumRobotArm*2, LightRobotArm*2, ActObjScan=Diff, ActObjPin=Diff,
           PassEnScan=Form
      Off: Hardpoints=1
                       Pen/          Max     Auto   Dngr
                 Ammo  Attn    Dmg   Range   Tgts   Spc    Sig   ROF
  --------------------------------------------------------------------------
2MW Pulse Laser    -   12/2     5   Dist(5)    3     3      H     80
 
      Def: Sandcaster*10
  Control: Comp=1*2, HUD*3
    Accom: Seats=Roomy*3 (Driver, Chief Recovery Operator, Recovery
           Operator), basic env, basic ls, grav plates, inertial comp
    Other: Fuel=15.12kl, Cargo=26.601kl, ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=Faint
 
                  Scipio Heavy Artillery Grav Vehicle
 
 
  Intended for indirect fire support, the Scipio is a member of the
Corbulo vehicle family. Sufficient ammunition is carried to maintain
fire for a reasonable time. The 5 MW lasers are in side sponsons and
are intended for AP fire only.
 
  Increased armour and the need to carry ammunition have lowered speeds
to an unacceptable level. An upgrade programme is envisaged to raise the
speed to at least 1000 kph at the price of endurance or ammunition
storage. So far these plans have not been put into action.
 
  A heavy robotic arm is provided to assist combat resupply.
 
 
  CraftID: Scipio Heavy Artillery Grav Vehicle, TL12, MCr8.3
     Hull: 9/21, Disp=8, Config=1SL+Turret, Armour=50F,
           Unloaded=243.094 tons, Loaded=269.462 tons
    Power: 2/4, Fusion=114MW, Dur=10/30
     Loco: 1/2, StdGrav=400 tons, Max=540 kph, Cruise=405 kph, NOE=135 kph
     Comm: Radio=FarOrbit(500,000), Maser=FarOrbit(500,000)
           Channels=T-Radio*12, T-Maser*12, R-Radio*144, R-Maser*144
           Panels=CompLinked(Transmit/Receive)*24
  Sensors: EMM, EMSActive=Cont(5000), EMSPassive=Cont(5000), HvyRobotArm
           ActObjScan=Diff, ActObjPin=Diff, PassEnScan=Form
      Off: Hardpoints=1
                       Pen/          Max     Auto   Dngr
                 Ammo  Attn    Dmg   Range   Tgts   Spc    Sig   ROF
  --------------------------------------------------------------------------
20cm Mass Driver  400  ---------------- (see below) ----------------
        HE              29      28  VDist(45)  2     60     L     60
        HEAP            56      20  VDist(45)  2     60     L     60
        KEAP            43      20  VDist(45)  2     60     L     60
        KEAPER          43      25  VDist(45)  2     60     L     60
        Flechette       29       4  VDist(45)  2    150     L     60
        Illum            -       -  VDist(45)  2    135     L     60
2*5MW Beam Laser   -   28/3     10  VDist(25)  2      4.5   H     40
 
      Def: Sandcaster*30
  Control: Comp=0bis*2, HUD*3
    Accom: Seats=Roomy*3 (Driver, Commander, Gunner), basic env, basic ls,
           grav plates, inertial comp
    Other: Fuel=13.68kl, Cargo=1.41kl, ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=Faint
 
                           Varro MRL Vehicle
 
 
  Intended for indirect fire support, the Varro is a member of the
Corbulo vehicle family. The gigantic turret may not be operated while
the vehicle is moving faster than 300 kph since it compromises the
streamlining of the vehicle. The 5MW laser is equipped with a PD module
and is located in a small subturret mounted on top of the rocket
launcher assembly.
 
  The vehicle carries 12 missiles ready for fire in the rocket launcher
assembly and an additional load of 72 missiles in the ammunition hold. A
heavy robotic arm is provided to assist combat resupply.
 
 
  CraftID: Varro MRL Vehicle, TL12, MCr13.78
     Hull: 12/28, Disp=8, Config=1AF+Turret, Armour=50F,
           Unloaded=283.3424 tons, Loaded=304.7924 tons
    Power: 2/4, Fusion=90Mw, Dur=20/60
     Loco: 2/4, StdGrav=800 tons, Max=1770 kph, Cruise=1327 kph, NOE=160 kph
     Comm: Radio=FarOrbit(500,000), Maser=FarOrbit(500,000)
           Channels=T-Radio*12, T-Maser*12, R-Radio*144, R-Maser*144
           Panels=CompLinked(Transmit/Receive)*24
  Sensors: EMM, EMSActive=Cont(5000), EMSPassive=Cont(5000), HvyRobotArm
           ActObjScan=Diff, ActObjPin=Diff, PassEnScan=Form
      Off: Hardpoints=1
 
                       Pen/          Max     Auto   Dngr
                 Ammo  Attn    Dmg   Range   Tgts   Spc    Sig   ROF
  --------------------------------------------------------------------------
24cm Rocket Tube   12  ---------------- (see below) ----------------
        HE              33      34  VDist(70)  2     65     H     12
        HEAP            63      24  VDist(70)  2            H     12
        KEAP            41      24  VDist(70)  2            H     12
        KEAPER          41      29  VDist(70)  2            H     12
5MW Beam Laser     -   28/3     10  VDist(25)  2      4.5   H     40
 
      Def: Sandcaster*30, PD Targeting for laser
  Control: Comp=3*2, HUD*3
    Accom: Seats=Roomy*3 (Driver, Commander, Gunner), basic env, basic ls,
           grav plates, inertial comp
    Other: Fuel=21.6kl, Cargo=2.78kl, ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=Faint,
           AmmoStorage=72 missiles (6 full loads)
 
 
                          Light Liason Vehicle
 
 
  This light speeder is the standard liason craft of of junior command
ranks in many TL12 ground armies. The cramped seats are a cause for
constant complaint among the users, but no plans are afoot to modify
the existing arrangement. The cargo capacity is negligeable, and most of
the time, cargo is carried in lieu of the fifth passenger.
 
 
  CraftID: Light Liason Vehicle Mk 2, TL12, Cr419,200
     Hull: 1/3, Disp=1, Config=1AF, Armour=3F, Unloaded=3.211 tons
           Loaded=3.2244 tons
    Power: 1/2, FuelCell=0.9, Duration=2/6
     Loco: 1/2, LP-HGrav=8 tons, Max=1590 kph, Cruise=1193 kph, NOE=160 kph
           Accel=1.48G
     Comm: Radio=Regional(500), Maser=VDist(50)
  Sensors: Radar=VDist(50), Headlights*2, ActObjScan=Diff, ActObjPin=Diff
      Off: -
      Def: -
  Control: Comp=0bis*2, DynLink*6
    Accom: Crew=1 (Driver), Seats=Cramped*5, basic ls, basic env
    Other: Fuel=0.192kl, Cargo=0.001kl, ObjSiz=Small, EmLevel=Mod
 
                          Medium Cargo Vehicle
 
 
  The MCV is used to move medium cargoes at a fairly high speed. The
cargo hold is not pressurized or compensated, and soldiers may not be
carried in it. The vehicle is especially thin-skinned and should never
be used in combat engagements.
 
 
  CraftID: Medium Cargo Vehicle Mk 3, TL12, Cr1,949,480
     Hull: 8/16, Disp=8, Config=1AF, Armour=3F, Unloaded=49.008 tons
           Loaded=129.042 tons
    Power: 1/2, Fusion=27Mw, Duration=8/24
     Loco: 1/2, StdGrav=260 tons, EmptyMax=3400 kph, EmptyCruise=2555 kph,
           LoadedMax=1200 kph, LoadedCruise=900 kph, NOE=160 kph,
           EmptyAccel=4.3G, LoadedAccel=1.0G
     Comm: Radio=Regional(500), Maser=VDist(50)
  Sensors: Radar=VDist(50), Headlights*2, ActObjScan=Diff, ActObjPin=Diff
      Off: -
      Def: -
  Control: Comp=0*2, DynLink*59
    Accom: Crew=3 (Driver, Second Driver, Assistant), Seats=Cramped*3,
           basic ls, basic env
    Other: Fuel=5.184kl, Cargo=80.0340kl, ObjSiz=Small/Avg, EmLevel=Mod
 
                    Type F6 and F6-IP Heavy Fighter
 
 
  The F6 fighter is designed to function as a light fleet defence unit.
It can also maintain long range patrols and function as a light SDB. The
greatest failing of the fighter is the small computer, and a modified
model (Type F6-IP) is available. The data in brackets is for the F6-IP.
 
  The turret is a hybrid unit containing a single TL12 fusion gun and a
triple sandcatser. Combat mode takes twice the power of running mode.
The two control seats and the controls are located between the two small
staterooms.
 
 
  CraftID: Type F6 Heavy Fighter, TL12, MCr107.315 (85.852) [MCr100.012]
     Hull: 38/95, Disp=40, Config=1AF, Armour=60F, Unloaded=2269.33 tons,
           Loaded=2277.43 tons
    Power: 16/32, Fusion=1392Mw, Dur=7/14 [6/12]
     Loco: 7/14, Maneuver=6, Max=972 kph, Cruise=729 kph, NOE=160 kph,
           Agility=1, EmergencyAgility=2, Accel=6
     Comm: Radio=System*3, Laser=System*3, Maser=System*3
           Channels=T-Radio*36, T-Laser*36, T-Maser*36, R-Radio*432,
           R-Laser*432, R-Maser*432
           Panels=CompLinked(Receive/Transmit)*144
  Sensors: EMM, HighPenDensit=50m, NeutrinoSensor=1Mw,
           ActiveEMS=FarOrbit(500,000)*3, EMSJammer=FarOrbit(500,000)*3,
           PassiveEMS=Intrstlr(2 parsecs)*3, ActObjScan=Routine,
           ActiveObjPin=Routine, PassObjScan=Diff, PassObjPin=Diff,
           PassEnScan=Routine, PassEnPin=Form
      Off: Hardpoints=1
 
                Fusion Gun=x04
                    Batt     1
                 Bearing     1
 
      Def: DefDM+5 [DefDM+8]
 
                Sandcaster=x03
                   Batt      1
                Bearing      1
 
  Control: Comp=2bis*3 [5*3], LargeHoloDisplay
    Accom: Crew=2 (Commander/Gunner, Pilot), SmallStaterooms*2, Seats=Roomy*2,
           basic env, basic ls, extended ls, grav plates, inetrial comp
    Other: Fuel=111.694kl [102.694kl], FuelScoops, ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=Faint
 

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2601
Subject: Re: 2583 Laser Communications
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 91 15:05:51 PDT
From: Carl Fago <carlf@agora.rain.COM>

> Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1991 23:35 CDT
> From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
> Subject: (2583) Laser Communicators
> 
> Here is a quick question:
> 
> When a ship using a laser communicator is firing a sandcaster, won't that
> really mess up transmission?
> 
> That is the reason I have always used masercoms as opposed to lasercoms.
> 
> What are the prevailing opinions?

Really depends on which direction your laser is communicating in and the
direction of fire for your sandcasters.

The other thought is that the laser communications are on a different
frequency than the laser weaponry.  The sandcasters would be developed for
a specific range of laser weaponry frequency to optimize energy absorption.
This optimum frequency is probably different than for a communication
array.

I would liken your question to the following...

Can a radio transmission be received with intervening chaff?

I believe the answer is yes and thus laser communications can take place
with intervening sandcaster material.

- - -- 
+---------------------------------------------+------------------------------+
| *-=Carl=-*  INTERNET - carlf@agora.rain.com | Time is nature's way to keep |
|             DELPHI - WULFGAR                | everything from happening    |
| Carl Fago   Portland, OR                    | all at once.    -anon.       |
+---------------------------------------------+------------------------------+


------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
*****************

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To: dan@engrg.uwo.ca
Subject: TML Bundle #213: Msgs 2602-2613
Reply-To: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Precedence: bulk
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 91 10:57:32 PDT
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@metolius.wr.tek.com>
Status: R


TML Bundles come from the archives of the Traveller Mailing List,
maintained by James Perkins, traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon Jul 22 10:57:27 PDT 1991
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #213: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
2602  13-Jul-91 Carl Fago         Re: Technology & Such << > Date: Fri, 12 Jul 
2603  14-Jul-91 Mike.Metlay@ORGAN various matters << Thanks to Mark Cook and Wi
2604  15-Jul-91 Adrian Hurt       Re: Not the ultimate comment on planetary inv
2605  15-Jul-91 Adrian Hurt       Re: More planetary defences << George William
2606  15-Jul-91 ANANDA%BSU.DECNET Random Alien Generation << I remember seeing 
2607  12-Jul-91 Carl Fago         Re: TML->GEnie and aesd.dnet.ge.com << > The 
2608  14-Jul-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha Re: Erm, mistake? << > From: Marc Alexandrovi
2609  15-Jul-91 "CMD ENS ERIC M.  Re: Merc division << In regards to the TO&E, 
2610  15-Jul-91 "CMD ENS ERIC M.  Technopeasant << Following the discussion of 
2611  15-Jul-91 jimv@ucrmath.ucr. Traveller_Tales_1of5 << Greetings all. I've b
2612  15-Jul-91 Brian Larkin      Hardpoints << What is the rule regarding hard
2613  16-Jul-91 Jo Jaquinta       Library Data Program << I've had quite a few 

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2602
Subject: Re: Technology & Such
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 91 15:57:04 PDT
From: Carl Fago <carlf@agora.rain.COM>

> Date: Fri, 12 Jul 91 13:17:17 PDT
> From: Mark F. Cook <markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.COM>
> Subject: (2592) Re: Stable Tech. vs. Stale Tech
> 
> James Perkins (jamesp@metolius.wr.tek.com) writes:
> 
> > Mark F. Cook <markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.COM> writes:
> > > advance (which is exponential), the rate at which the human race advances
> > > technologically should 'go vertical' in less than 300 years.
> > 
> > One possible problem with Vinge's supposition is that it fails to take
> > into account that people must apply the technology that has been
> > discovered, and this takes time.  The biggest limiting factor to the
> > growth of technology, as I see it, are the factors of societal
> > communication and understanding.  It takes time for engineers to
> > incorporate new ideas, it takes time to develop proficiency in their
> > use, it takes time to bring people up to speed, and large projects where
> > many new technological advancements are put together have a high risk of
> > failure.
> 
> This is only true if the underlying technology needs to be widely
> communicated, which may not be the case.  Joe Citizen does not need
> to re-learn how to drive a car, just because fuel injection, power
> steering, and catalytic convertors get introduced.

The fuel injection and power steering are evolutionary changes to technology
not revolutionary.  I would tend to agree with James regarding revolutionary
changes (horse vs car) and Mark regarding evolutionary changes (Model T vs
the Ford Taurus).

Look at how long it takes for evolutionary military hardware to develop.
I don't have the exact dates with me but I believe the B2 bomber took something
like 15 years to develop.  In my discussions with the research lab that I am
seeking employment with, they mention that the ideas they develop today won't
be seen in the military for at least ten years.

The talk of fast or slow technological development is dependent on the area
of technology that is being discussed.  Mark sites the computer technology:

> A closer example
> would be the introduction of RISC architectures in UN*X workstation
> SPUs.  While these provide an order-of-magnitude (in some cases)
> performance improvement in the computer, only a small sub-set of the
> total user base (the system administrators) need any supplemental
> training to take advantage of the new technology.  To all the other
> users, the change is transparent; their programs just run faster.

But this is _very_ different from a revolutionary change in the methods of
computing and _what_ a computer may do.  Running a program faster is purely
evolutionary.

Mark and I discussed the advance of technolgy briefly last night and I would
say that if the direct neural link he proposed would be developed, then
James' hypothesis of the time required for society to assimilate the
change is correct.

> If the advances in technology occur in the information and communication
> industry, then the rate of increase may go even faster.
> 
> >      ...  Look at the failure of the first n Mariner space probes, the
> > incredible cost of the Space Shuttle, the Sergeant York program, Hubble,
> > Galileo, the Soviet Mars moon probes, and the NeXT computer.
> 
> With the possible exception of Galileo and the NeXT computer, these failures
> can be directly attributed to mismanagement and political infighting, not
> the inability to disseminate new technology.  (This is *not*, however, true
> for the Sgt. York.  It was a piece of sh*t from the start.  But I digress...)


Now _here_ is one of the _real_ problems...  The politics of advancement and
the management of the funds relating to the advancement will _always_ be
there.  As the technology advances, the cost will also increase.  My
opinion is that the cost of technology will increase faster than inflation.
Thus, there will be fewer and fewer "backyard" inventors making significant
contributions to technological advancement.  I think we have already seen this
in the past fifty years.

> > 	[[[ James' Maxim of Technology Advancement ]]]
> > 
> > 	You can't push technology faster than it can be
> > 	communicated, understood, incorporated, and perfected.
> 
> No argument here.  I just think that the new technology is being
> communicated, understood, incorporated, and perfected faster all
> the time.  I cannot believe that mankind has some inherent 'upper
> limit' for accepting these changes.  The limit is cultural, and
> since the culture is modified by the new technology, and vice-versa,
> I don't see any immediate obstacle to accelerated assimilation.

I believe that there is a limit given a certain population base. 
One person's capacity is finite.  Mark provided the neural computer
implant as a way of increasing the capacity.  But I submit that this just
increases the capability of the person no the capacity to hold and
assimilate information.  An example would be Mark's specialty in computers
and mine in engineering.  I couldn't develop a "C" program that would be
useful (at least not now.)  I don't think Mark could solve some of the more
difficult nuclear engineering problems that I work with.  Now both of us
could do the others work given the time and training.  But the sacrifice
would be the previous job capability.

Basically, each of society's individuals is required to become more specialized
in order to support a higher technological base.

The other thought rattling around in the brain is the cost of the technology.
Many a TMLer may be more ready to accept a revolutionary concept in, say, 
transportation...the personal flying vehicle, about the size of a car.  They
exist now.  You can go out and buy one.  They will fit in your garage.  They
are not the dorky-looking aircars of the 50s.

But they cost over $100,000!!  I don't know of a TMLer (though I only 
personally know a few :-) who could afford one!

> > What about ceramic high-temperature turbine-powered drive-by-wire
> > automobiles? One innovation at a time, please! Serial, not parallel
> > improvement.  New ideas on a proven base.  It's they way human
> > engineering and technology transfer works.  The human mind has a limited
> > capacity to absorb and use new ideas.
> 
> Not true!  all three concepts (ceramic engines, turbines, and drive-by-wire)
> were developed independently of one another.  None of those ideas had to
> wait for any of the others to be perfected before they could work.
> Synthesis is the fundemental nature of innovation.  Right now, the only
> thing preventing all three concepts from being incorporated in next year's
> Chevrolet is one person with a sufficiently large checkbook. :-)

I caution against the oversimplification.  The developments are neither
wholly serial nor wholly parallel.  Technological advancement is a very
synergistic process.  I believe that if the complete failure of one or
two technological advancements is postulated, a whole raft of other
seemingly independent advancements would also fail.

And as far as the checkbook...sorry Mark, I think that it takes a whole
slew of checkbooks (DOD not withstanding :-) to make a technology work.

> As for the human mind having a limited capacity to absorb and use new
> ideas, that may be, but we're nowhere near the limit.  Using a work-
> station running X-Windows, I can absorb an order of magnitude more info
> today than I could have on an ASCII terminal 5 years ago.

I don't believe your absorbtion capability has increased, I maintain your
efficiency has increased and thus you are able to weed out more garbage
and find more of what you need or want.  

- - -- 
+---------------------------------------------+------------------------------+
| *-=Carl=-*  INTERNET - carlf@agora.rain.com | Time is nature's way to keep |
|             DELPHI - WULFGAR                | everything from happening    |
| Carl Fago   Portland, OR                    | all at once.    -anon.       |
+---------------------------------------------+------------------------------+


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2603
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 91 12:00:06 EDT
From: Mike.Metlay@ORGAN.MUSIC.CS.CMU.EDU
Subject: various matters

Thanks to Mark Cook and William Timmins, who pointed out the problem of
lung strength in CFC breathing with large animals; that was a facet of the
research I hadn't been aware of. Sorry for the mixup.

Steve Kellogg: I have many Hiver NPCs in my current Traveller game, including
a fellow whose nickname eludes me at the moment who took over the operation
of Radio Free Terra in 1117 after Near Miss shut it down. I have little or
no difficulty running Hivers--- they represent, as a species, the way I like
to handle parties that get too uppity with me. |-> The K'Kree have been run 
as NPCs in my campaign in the past; I find them more aggravation than they're
worth. Droyne are kind of fun as patrons, Aslan make for a nice change of
pace, and Vargr--well, as anyone who's read the Near Miss stories or played
with me and Bhyarrvouf on the PBEM can attest, they're my favorite alien race
in any SF genre of any kind, period. My wife and I refer to our marriage as
"A Vargr kinda love;" we never get bored with each other. |-> In practice, the
original idea was to populate the spinward galaxy with races that would be
easy to roleplay, and the trailing part with tougher ones, thus allowing groups
of players to expand their abilites in a controlled manner, according to the Gthink team that created the major races in the late Seventies.

On the acceleration of history and technology: one of the players in my game
got very annoying with his insistence that humanity should have long ago shot
upward into the black hole foam, with all the attributes of godhood. My response
was, "How do you know they didn't? Shut up and play the game." Suspension of
disbelief is a stapl,e for games like this; we just have to learn to accept
the fact that a future society would be impossible to roleplay enjoyably if
we made it totally alien to our own.

metlay

PS. Has anyone SEEN MTJ2 yet? I live in terror of missing it before it's 
out of print.

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2604
From: Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Not the ultimate comment on planetary invasions
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 91 10:11:44 BST

Marc Alexandrovich Volovic <mav@cs.huji.ac.il> writes:
>   The very fact that spending is limited would favour an attacker or
> defender who balances the quantity of medium priced combat vehicles with
> a quality of high priced combat vehicles (be these vehicles TL9 grav
> tanks or TL15 super dreadnoughts). There may be 5 Atlantis battleships
> (Robert Dean's Prize Baby :-) in a star system, but a mixed force can
> outmaneuver it and perform a planetary landing.

Perhaps, but there had better be something that can take out those 5 Atlantis
class battleships, or at least keep all 5 occupied for a long time, or else
at least one battleship will come and make the invasion very costly.

>   On another hand - a planetary assault may take place WITH THE CONSENT
> of the defender - if an attacker finds himself faced with an apparently
> impenetrable defence belt, he may just give up the idea of an assault
> and accelerate a few medium sized asteroids at the target planet. Thus a
> situation similar to a battle of Maldon may arise - the defender
> granting battlespace to the attacker.

The whole assumption in this discussion is that for some reason, the attacker
can not/does not want to destroy the defender totally in this manner.  (Why
was such a tactic never used during any of the Frontier Wars, by the way?)
Otherwise, if the attacker finds himself faced with an unbeatable defence
at any stage, he can just give up, take off and nuke the planet from orbit.

>   If the above comments hold true the deciding stage in an invasion
> would be how much of the attacking force can the defender destroy before
> an engagement on the world surface, but without making him desperate
> enough or hurt enough to bombard and jump outsystem. This may or may not
> be the fine art of generalship in the future.

Fine art?  Either the attacker wins, or the defender wins.  If the defender
wins, the attacker brings up the asteroid.  End of defender's story.

>   The future batlefiled itself depends very much on the concept of
> anti-gravity. If it invented (and within Traveller it is assumed so),
> filed artillery and infantry will rapidly decline in importance. Indeed,
> infantry is losing importance even now, long before even air-cushion
> combat vehicles have appeared.

Why?  There are reasons why the infantry has to get out of the vehicles
and fight on foot.  The only way anti-gravity will put an end to fighting
on foot is if every soldier gets a grav-belt, and anyone with Striker will
know what that will do to the unit's maintenance costs!

>   Infantry shall continue to be used in city assaults, police and
> security work, shipboard actions and heavily broken areas combat.

The first and last of those come under the heading of "Getting stuck in
and capturing the real estate".  Assuming you actually want control of the
planet, you're going to have to take control of the cities, which means
city assaults.  If the cities have been bombarded, it means broken areas
combat.

> Artilley shall probably lose all almost all use except for the most
> rapidfiring cannon in light anti-vehicle combat.

Certainly it is true that at higher tech levels, you can build vehicles which
are invulnerable to any practical conventional CPR or mass-driver round.
So long as the infantry stay in their heavily armoured APC's, or in their
bunkers, they are safe.  (And so long as someone doesn't let off some nuclear
rounds.)  Artillery will still be a good way of keeping their heads down, and
weakening their morale.

- - -- 
 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cs
 UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian     |  ARPA:   adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2605
From: Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: More planetary defences
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 91 10:31:39 BST

George William Herbert <gwh@ocf.Berkeley.EDU> writes:
> 	Think on this one, a bit... rather than a 'national guard', give
> everyone on the planet a combo pack of the following:
> 	Laser Rangefinder/direction finder (PRIS Binocs do fine)
> 	Inertial Locator
> 	x range masercom (determined by other constraints)

Now imagine trying to do that in real life.  Can you imagine what would happen
if President Bush tried to pass a law that every house be fitted with a 
military installation?  Even something relatively harmless like the above?  If
a war was in progress, or looked like being imminent, he might get away with
an emergency programme, assuming that the required number of devices could be
provided, distributed and installed at short notice.  Otherwise there would
be the mother of all peace protests!

As for doing it in Traveller - on a non-democratic world perhaps, or maybe by
Imperial decree.

- - -- 
 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cs
 UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian     |  ARPA:   adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2606
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1991 07:42 CDT
From: ANANDA%BSU.DECNET@MSUS1.BITNET
Subject: Random Alien Generation

I remember seeing a Random Alien Generation article in Dragon magazine waaaay
back.  I do believe it's in issue #59.  The cover has an sci fi theme, an
illustration of a group of 3-6 humans and maybe a robot, along with a shuttle-
type craft. If not #59, then it's in the range of #54 - #76, since those are
the only Dragons I ever bought.  

At the time I found the article highly amusing, since I didn't play Traveller,
and ended up using it for monster generation when we were bored with the
typical Monster Manual critters.  I can't comment on how "good" the article
would be for any of the Traveller game systems, since I don't know any of them
that well at all.

There was a short story about Traveller-types, I remember, and an article
detailing a "new" type of Traveller character.  I don't at the moment remember
what they were called, but they were the people who were the second group to
land on a planet.  Only the "real basics" as far as electronic exploration goes
were done by the first group; this second group did the actual intensive
ground-based research.  Thinking back on this, the type of group sounds similar
to the EEC (Exploration and Evaluation Corps) group in Anne McCaffrey's
_Dinosaur_Planet_.



- - --Ananda

ananda%bsu.decnet@msus1.msus.edu  /ananda%bsu@msus1.msus.edu \__if the .decnet 
ananda%bsu.decnet@msus1.bitnet    \ananda%bsu@msus1.bitnet   /  causes problems


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2607
Subject: Re: TML->GEnie and aesd.dnet.ge.com
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 91 18:54:10 PDT
From: Carl Fago <carlf@agora.rain.COM>

> The user whom I thought was having the TML delivered to GEnie was, in
> fact, not receiving the TML on GEnie.  So, I don't have any knowledge of
> a gateway now.  Someone want to suggest the next course of attack?
> 
> James

I posted an offer on GEnie last Wednesday.  The offer was to transmit the
TML on a periodic basis to either the message board or upload bundles to
the file library or even to send stuff on a personal email basis.

I have yet to have any response _at_all_.  It seems that if GDW or DGP wanted
to see what the average Traveller player was up to, they should get on the
TML and get away from GEnie altogether.  There just isn't much going on
over there.

I'll keep the TML posted as to the status of GEnie, but for now I think the
idea is dead due to lack of interest on the other end.

- - -- 
+---------------------------------------------+------------------------------+
| *-=Carl=-*  INTERNET - carlf@agora.rain.com | Time is nature's way to keep |
|             DELPHI - WULFGAR                | everything from happening    |
| Carl Fago   Portland, OR                    | all at once.    -anon.       |
+---------------------------------------------+------------------------------+


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2608
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se (Bertil Jonell)
Subject: Re: Erm, mistake?
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 91 12:19:56 MET DST

> From: Marc Alexandrovich Volovic <mav@cs.huji.ac.il>
> Subject: (2586) Erm, mistake?
> 
> Hello,
> 
> 	Bertil, I THINK (correct me, if anything) that your Vargr vehicle
> designs have a slight error - 
> 
> >VARGR THONGHSUDH ARTILLERY VEHICLE
> >  CraftID: Thonghsudh Artillery Vehicle, TL13, MCr 6.874
> >     Hull: 116/296, Disp=8, Config=1AF, Armor=40F, Unloaded=147tons, 
> >           Loaded=176tons
> 
> Unless I am gravely mistaken - Displacement of 8 gives 108kl hull which, in
> turn gives 108/15=7.2rounded=8 points to Inoperative. Why is the arty listed
> as having 116/296?

  Yes, but there has been two corrections to this. First the official in the
errata that states that all vehicle damage figures are to be multiplied by ten,
and then Rob Deans TDR Vehicle Design where inop damage is computed as
unloaded weight divided by 1.2 and destroyed damage by multiplying unloaded
weight by 1.7 (with reservations for my memory).
  
  The best (IMO) result of this is that extremely heavy vehicles like tanks
and SDBs get larger damage point totals due to their heavy armor.
  
- - -- 
"How about black and yellow striped with neon-green highlights?" - The PCs tries to camouflage their ship.

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2609
Date: 15 Jul 91 11:20:00 EST
From: "CMD ENS ERIC M. SERGIENKO" <s94sergienko@usuhsb.ucc.usuhs.nnmc.navy.mil>
Subject: Re: Merc division

In regards to the TO&E, it seems you've forgotten the medical
department :-)

Typically at the division level, there is a medical company as 
part of the HHB.  It provides medical support to the unit,
largely preventative medicine.  It is commanded by the division 
surgeon.

At the battalion level, the re is a medical platoon as part of 
the HHC.  It provides frontline care (i.e. battlefield medics and
the battalion aid station).  It consists of two medical officers
and about sixty corpsmen (generally).  The corpsmen are spread
between medics assigned to combat platoons, ambulances, and
treatment teams at the BAS.

ttfn,
eric sergienko


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2610
Date: 15 Jul 91 13:29:00 EST
From: "CMD ENS ERIC M. SERGIENKO" <s94sergienko@usuhsb.ucc.usuhs.nnmc.navy.mil>
Subject: Technopeasant

Following the discussion of James, Mark, Carl, etal. inre stale
technology, here's my sociological nanocent.

I don't doubt that technology will continue to grow at a geometric
rate.  However, as it does, the ability of the common man to 
understand every part of its intricacies will decrease.
There will be fewer people who know how the thing works,
and there'll be a widening gap between the technophile and
the technopeasna

the technopeasant.  Even those that are comfortable with 
one aspect of high tech (e.g. medicine) may only function 
marginally in another (e.g. computers).

This might lead to a couple of things:
1)The revolt of the technopeasants (the rising of the greens as in
  _Fallen Angels_)
2)A feudal technocracy were each high tech speciality has a degree 
  of control because of its specialized knowledge.

I could imagine a cyberpunk world as well, were tech is all icons.
I agree with Mark that by TL 15 we might not recognize ourselves.

ttfn,
eric


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2611
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 91 18:21:04 PDT
From: jimv@ucrmath.ucr.edu (jim vassilakos)
Subject: Traveller_Tales_1of5


Greetings all. I've been observing the TML from this shadowy
alcove for next to a year now and figured that it being summer,
this might be an opportune season to put forward the spoils of
imagination for those who are interested.

Being less the technical sort of personage yet more inclined to
dwell on subjects entirely without substance, I've turned all
idle attentions toward the fabrication of an alternate history
for my Traveller setting. Thus, with a Mischievous Huzzah & the
wagging of many a Vargr tail, that history in five glorious if
mundane chapters doth begin.

All comments, criticisms, and character assassinations are hereby
welcome. Enjoy.


- - -----------------------------------------------------------------


                       Traveller Tales

        being an encapsulated history of future time

               Copyright 1991 Jim Vassilakos
                 (for whatever it's worth)

               A.D. 2004-2568  *  The Infancy

                         Part One


   2004-2007  The Glowing War
   2011-2034  Germ Wars
   2047-2080  The E-Grid
   2068-2088  Only One Earth
   2084-2102  The Farmers' Rebellions
   2107-2181  Corporate Science
   2162-2212  High Road to Peace
   2197-2243  A Human Question
   2212-2262  Conquest of the Solar System
   2251-2292  Children of the Apes



2004-2007  The Glowing War

The 3rd Millennium kicked off with a bang, when in its first
decade both Paris and New York fell victim to nuclear terrorism.
The blow to the western psyche was heartfelt, yet the fear the
terrorists hoped to illicit was replaced only by anger in the
wake of the destruction. A handful of nations were held
responsible for backing the terrorists, and repercussions were
both swift and certain. Through a combination of neutron and
bacteriological strikes, the so-called offending nations were
decimated and a virtual moratorium on nuclear weapons was called
for by the seven superpowers. A policy of "Cooperative
Guardianship" was ruthlessly enforced by the superpowers in order
to maintain the nuclear free world.


2011-2034  Germ Wars

The so-called peace following the Glowing War was short-lived.
For another two decades, as the ability to produce
bacteriological weapons became available to the developing
nations through numerous advances in medical science, a series of
"germ wars" plagued the earth. By the middle 30's, the death toll
was three billion people. The wars resulted in tremendous
biomedical advances in the more advanced nations, however the
third world nations rarely benefitted from new discoveries and
were the hardest hit. Although relatively minor outbreaks
occurred later in the century resulting in half a billion more
fatalities, the wars were said to officially end with the Treaty
of New Delhi in 2034 when India unveiled the Yama Bug, a class of
germs with theoretically no possible immunization or antidote.
Such a germ had already existed in the more developed nations for
several decades, but never before had its release been
threatened. The Prime Minister's statement, "If India dies, the
whole world dies," brought an abrupt halt to the self-inflicted
genocide.


2047-2080  The E-Grid

By 2047, the world's first fusion reactor with a positive net
power output was successfully tested in Tokyo. Although the news
came as an astonishment to the energy community, the media and
public reaction was one of disinterest. Several times before
nuclear fusion had been announced only later to be disproved.
Further, the advent of fusion had been anticipated for next to a
century, so that when it finally came about, people wondered only
that it had taken so long for science to accomplish. Without
going into the technical reasons for the delays, it can be stated
with some accuracy that it was only until the middle 40's that
the technological components for the nuclear fuser were at hand.
   Several nations began extending their national energy grids,
exporting inexpensive electricity to the third world by way of
power lines or energy capacitors. The boost in world productivity
was astounding, and with the energy crisis finally licked, the
major stresses inciting conflict between nations were for a time
relieved. In 2080, the national energy grids of the nine super
powers and twenty-seven other states joined together in an
"energy confederation" under the auspices of the United Nations.
The World E-Grid was born.


2068-2088  Only One Earth

In 2068, the nine superpowers joined in a treaty known as the
"Green Pact" which was to later evolve into the "Only One Earth"
restoration campaign. As the global-warming crisis continued
unabated, the world community cooperated in the implementation of
long-term solutions to the greenhousing of the earth's atmosphere
and the environmentally sound disintegration or holding of toxic
substances. Although initially greeted with mixed support, the
efforts of this campaign were finally joined by the remaining
nations in 2088, instituting policies of renewal over the entire
planet.


2084-2102  The Farmers' Rebellions

In the years before the establishment of the world e-grid,
particularly during the middle stages of the Only One Earth
Campaign, the emerging energy-confederation began reclaiming
large areas of infertile land traditionally used for small-scale
subsistence farming. In so doing, the land was once again made
fertile for collective farming, however, hundreds of millions of
small-time farmers were displaced. This sudden shift in the
social order created a people entirely dispossessed, and in the
resulting chaos, a number of rebellions broke out beginning in
2084 and continued sporadically for eighteen years until the
Nolanders' rebellion was ruthlessly crushed in 2102.


2107-2181  Corporate Science

Throughout the 21st century, the vast majority of critical
research in the sciences was conducted with government funds, yet
beginning in 2107, corporations took the lead role in developing
emerging technologies. In 2107, Femm Biolabs in the United
Kingdom engineered a new species of algae which not only helped
reverse global warming during the 22nd century's period of
increased thermal-energy pollution, but also technologically
paved the way for sea farming. In 2122, cryogenic suspension was
refined to the point where long-term "freezing" became both
feasible and relatively safe. In the early 40's, several
breakthroughs in synaptic-electric links made artificial
prothesis of both limbs and major organs more feasible, and by
the middle 50's, the human mind could be connected directly to
computers for the transmission or retrieval of data. The 60's saw
the advent of limb and organ regeneration, and by the 70's
startling progress had been made on total body rejuvenation,
enabling individuals to live up to 200 years. Yet it was in 2181
that the corporate science achieved its crowning glory: the
development of gravitic technology. Though it wasn't for another
three centuries that the science behind the phenomenon was
understood, this step opened an entirely new field of technology,
revolutionizing the global transportation industry almost
overnight.


2162-2212  High Road to Peace

Despite all the progress made toward a unified social structure,
tensions began again to sweep the seeds of discord. Disputes over
territorial rights, population control, reparation for past
injustices, patent infringements, and a whole host of other
issues divided the varying and often fluid factions as though by
an iron wedge. It is thus significant that the United Nations
took the lead in renewing cooperative ties between the world's
many states, inciting perhaps the most unifying gesture of the
first quarter of the millennium. In 2162, the U.N. approved its
first fifty-year plan for space exploration and colonization.
Though this action may seem today more an attempt to divert the
world's attention from the "real issues", the joint venture did a
great deal to quell nationalistic aggression and instill a
feeling of "world community" among divergent peoples. By 2178
both Martian and Lunar colonies had been established, and by
2210, numerous colonies existed in the Jovian and Saturn systems
and in the asteroid belt.


2197-2243  A Human Question

By the late 22nd century, the cyborgization of the human species
was well underway. Since the 50's, numerous machines had been
designed to do nothing other than link with the human nervous
system and provide artificial sensations. These "psychedelic
sensitizers" or "sex machines" as they were sometimes called were
by the close of the century responsible for as many as a million
fatalities worldwide. To compound the problem, the public seemed
oblivious to the mounting death toll. This "crisis" prompted the
United Nations to create a Council on Human Affairs, and for the
first time in its existence, the U.N. began dictating a universal
morality from its high pulpit.
   For the most part, this infringement on private enterprise
came as a shock to the business sector which began moving its
more questionable operations off-planet where the Council would
not have legislative jurisdiction. However, as the 23rd century
dawned it became apparent the U.N. would have more on its hands
than mere sensitizers.
   In 2231, unprecedented breakthroughs in biogenetics allowed
the precise description of an unborn child's future traits, and
by the end of the decade, the IHM Corporation began marketing its
"First Step" program to prospective parents. First Step was
basically a euphemism for the "service" of altering the genetic
material of an unborn fetus in an attempt to create "perfect"
human beings. As the U.N. began wrestling with the ethics thereby
involved, geneticists began work on altering the human DNA to
even greater extremes. In the majority of cases, the geneticists
delivered on their promises, producing evermore intelligent,
physically powerful, and dexterous humans, however in a certain
number of cases mistakes were made, and artificial mutants were
born. Although many of these "accidents" were promptly disposed
of, not all could be hidden so easily. Finally, in 2243, the U.N.
passed a comprehensive ban of genetic engineering on human DNA.
By this time, however, several million super-children had already
been born, and although this figure represented only a small
fraction of earth's thirty billion inhabitants, the threat of
superbeings pounded a serious impact on the social psyche.


2212-2262  Conquest of the Solar System

With the successful completion of the 1st fifty year plan,
industry began to get heavily involved in space interests,
particularly in asteroid mining and shuttle services. Thus, when
it came time to draw the 2nd fifty-year plan in 2212, the U.N.
conferred heavily with business leaders to form an opinion on
what was possible and what was financially feasible. At the 2212
conference, the Aster Corporation unveiled its prospects for the
construction the Von Neumann Robotic Miner. Once complete, the
spacecraft would be capable of self-replication, it's sole
purpose to find mineral deposits among the asteroids, mine them,
and reproduce itself. By 2220, the first VNRM set sail for the
belt, and within four decades, hundreds of the miners existed,
plying the asteroids for minerals which manned vessels could
later find neatly deposited with a homing beacon and refine in
the deep of space.
   Planetary population stress, however, proved to become an even
more serious issue than the plundering of the belt. Despite the
numerous microworlds and planetary settlements created during the
first fifty-year plan, the Terran population pressures were more
evident than ever, and by 2212 every nation on the globe
practiced some variety of population control. It was therefore
critical that some form of large-scale terraforming be undertaken
by the world community. Again, the corporations came to the
rescue with a number of exotic ideas involving the biological
terraformation of Mars, Venus, and Titan. Forming into a
cooperative combine latter to be known as the Solar Planetary
Trust Corporation, these companies demanded exorbitant property
rights on the planets to be terraformed, rights which bordered on
the creation of sovereign states beyond the United Nations'
traditional jurisdiction. With the world community's grudging
acquiescence in 2217, the long process toward terraformation was
begun.


2251-2292  Children of the Apes

With the road to human genetic development legally cut short in
2243, many "human engineers" found themselves squeezed out of the
private sector. One such scientist, Dr. Ukliv Eski, returned to
the academia where he founded the Department of Hominid Studies
at the University of Kampala. There, his research team raised
several generations of chimpanzees, the genetic structure of
which he successively modified toward humanity's own. By 2289,
his chimps gained international notoriety on a holovideo talk
show where on several occasions they argued the "world issues"
with political leaders, the implicit parody of the situation
flustering their opponents and creating a media circus. Although
never progressing beyond a grade school intelligence, the chimps
ingratiated themselves into their hearts of the common people.
However, in a biological mishap at the University in 2292, the
chimps and their trainers, including Dr. Eski, were killed. Later
that year, the U.N. extended its 2243 prohibition on the genetic
manipulation of human DNA to cover the DNA of all hominid
species.


           _   /|
           \`o_O'
             ( )     <---  jimv@ucrmath.ucr.edu
              U            ucsd!ucrmath!jimv (uucp)
          Aachk!
        Phft! Ftp!



------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2612
Date:         Mon, 15 Jul 91 21:11:49 CDT
From: Brian Larkin <UC559687@UMCVMB.missouri.edu>
Subject:      Hardpoints



What is the rule regarding hardpoints on small craft/spaceships?
I know it says that you are only allowed one per 100 tons of craft
volume, but that seems awfully small for me.  Anybody modified this
in their own games?????

Also what is space-worthiness of small vehicles.  The reason I ask
is I was trying to implement some small vehicles to be used to transport
marines (translation: pirates) to a smaller ship for boarding.  The ships
would also be used for additional fire support during boarding actions.

The reason I ask is that I was under the impression that there is some
penalty for ships that do not have standard Manuever drives.  Since
20 tons is the smallest available hull tonnage to have a manuever drive
ships with M-Drives is not an option....

If anybody could help me out and explain this stuff to me please do..

- - -- Toucan

   User Consultant
   University of Missouri -- Columbia
   uc559687@umcvmb.missouri.edu
           @UMCVMB.BITNET

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2613
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 91 13:48:22 BST
From: Jo Jaquinta <jaymin@maths.tcd.ie>
Subject: Library Data Program

	I've had quite a few requests for the library data program. I've
made some changes as well. And stuck in on the local mail server.
Note this program is not complete and ready for general distribution.
I am just looking at this stage for beta-testers.
	You can find it in the jaymin/trav directory. Either
		jaymin/trav/libdist.zip
	or
		jaymin/trav/library.exe
		jaymin/trav/library.doc
		jaymin/trav/core.asc
		jaymin/trav/egavga.bgi
	You can get help on the mail server by sending the one line
		HELP
	as the text of your message to info-server@maths.tcd.ie

	Thanks.
				Jo Jaquinta
				jaymin@maths.tcd.ie

PS: Who is our closet Costykian freak? First Bunnies and Burrows, Then
Arabian Nights. What next Swords and Sorcery? :-)

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
*****************

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To: dan@engrg.uwo.ca (Dan Corrin), bfwong@ocf.berkeley.edu (Raven Blackburn),
        mcknight@f104.n170.z1.fidonet.org (Chuck McKnight),
        fantasci!traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (Joseph "Jo" E Poplawski),
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Date: Wed, 17 Jul 91 21:00:21 PDT
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Status: R


TML Bundles come from the archives of the Traveller Mailing List,
maintained by James Perkins, traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed Jul 17 21:00:18 PDT 1991
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #214: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
2614  16-Jul-91 jimv@ucrmath      Traveller Tales - 2 of 5 << Traveller Tales b
2615  16-Jul-91 Dan Corrin        Re: Random Alien Generation << On the subject
2616  16-Jul-91 "Robert S. Dean"  Re: (2606) Random Alien Generation << I resis
2617  16-Jul-91 Cynthia Higginbot starship prices & economics << Scott Kellog w
2618  17-Jul-91 "D. Jay Newman 86 Starship economics. << >A long time ago, you 
2619  17-Jul-91 Brian G. Vaughan  re: Stable Tech vs. Stale Tech << There are s

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2614
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 91 08:45:05 PDT
From: jimv@ucrmath (jim vassilakos)
Subject: Traveller Tales - 2 of 5


                       Traveller Tales

        being an encapsulated history of future time

               Copyright 1991 Jim Vassilakos
                 (for whatever it's worth)

               A.D. 2004-2568  *  The Infancy

                         Part Two


   2247-2299  Quest for the Stars
   2273-2334  Problems in Space
   2295-2367  Problems on Earth
   2336-2419  Medical Renaissance
   2374-2470  Resurgence of Religion
   2470-2471  Harbinger from Nessus
   2443-2568  Genetic Evolutions



2247-2299  Quest for the Stars

As the United Nations' second fifty year plan for space
exploration and colonization came to its completion, science
teams around the solar system raced to find some answer to the
mass-deficiency syndrome which held back interstellar travel.
Finally, in 2247, the Bourns Corporation announced its successful
development of the hydrofunnel, a device by which hydrogen could
be captured in the deep of space. Several companies including
Aster and MDC began licensing production rights in lieu of the
2262 summit. There, a whole host of interstellar vessels were
commissioned for service. The quest for the stars had begun.
   To cap off the century in 2299, radio transmissions were
received from researchers on Alpha Centauri. A primitive
ecosystem had been discovered on the small world orbiting within
the primary's habitable zone, reinvigorating ancient hopes and
fears that human beings might find intelligent life in space, or
vice-versa.


2273-2334  Problems in Space

To the exasperation of scientists, not all of humankind's efforts
in space were fruitful. A combination of inexplicable failures
and oversights gave pause to the U.N. space program while
corporations continued to rush ahead. The first signs that Man
had reached his limit was in 2273 when Femm Biolabs announced its
latest breakthrough in the engineering of artificial organisms by
unveiling a whole host of Martian settlers. Although the line
proved extremely beneficial in the early terraformation efforts,
the organisms proved unreasonably hardy and became a bane to the
settlers during the late 23rd century when predatory organisms
were called in to check the population of the pests. The
situation fell entirely out of hand during the early 24th century
as predatory Martian beetles would burrow through the foundation
of domed settlements, exposing the colonists to the hazards of
vacuum.
   In 2306, reports from Alpha Centauri confirmed that Man had
overstepped his bounds when Terran bacteria began running amok in
the fragile, alien ecosystem. By the late 20's, the Terran
bacteria had completely usurped their indigenous rivals.
   The final boot fell in 2334, when the UNS Halifax suffered a
catastrophic failure of its hydrofunnel during a routine survey
mission of the interstellar hydrogen clouds around the solar
system. The crew decided by lots who would undergo cryogenic
freezing, hopefully to be later rescued, while the losers
sustained themselves for several years, finally resorting to
cannibalism as their nutrition supplies became exhausted.


2295-2367  Problems on Earth

Despite the colonization and population control efforts of the
23rd century, the population stress on planet was insidious with
a purported demographic summary of sixty billion people by the
turn of the century. In order to combat this problem, the U.N.
began a large scale sterilization movement in 2295 combined with
the marketing of propagation rights three years later. Any
children who were found to have been born without proper
processing after the turn of the century were "confiscated" by
the newly created World Peace Agency. Isolated rebellions against
the policy were quickly put down, and political leaders, many of
them in their 2nd rejuvenation with families of eight or twelve
children, argued that enforcement of these extreme measures were
the only way to quell population growth from bursting the seams
of the world order.
   To compound the crisis already forming, the U.N. initiated a
policy in 2318 of forced deportation and/or cryogenic sleep for
repeated law offenders as a means of humanly screening the
undesirables from society's ranks. In 2329, a group of protesters
broke into a cold berth confinement area in order to try and free
the captives. The government responded by shutting down power to
the sector, thereby killing the occupants in the low berths
before they could be freed. This incident led to the London
uprising of the following year in which an additional 1.3 million
people were arrested and cryogenically frozen.
   In 2315, corporations began responding to the crisis by
building colossal "Arks" in which humans could travel
cryogenically frozen for hundreds of years before reaching any of
the various settlements promised to be robotically constructed
before their arrival. Over the next five decades, some four
hundred and eighty million people signed on for interstellar
colonization. However, when compared to the size of the overall
problem, the colonization effort seemed more like the proverbial
drop in the bucket. The vast majority of population relief came
due to the U.N. propagation restrictions, unpopular though they
were, and by 2367 the legislation achieved its benchmark goal of
a fifty billion population level with sustained negative growth.


2336-2419  Medical Renaissance

Part of the reason behind earth's population pressures was the
increasing pace of advance in the medical sciences. In the middle
of the 23rd century, geneticists already knew how to modify a
species' DNA over successive generations to create, in effect, a
new species. The more simple the organism, more available the
model, and shorter the lifespan of the organism, the quicker the
pace this engineered evolution could be carried out. By monkeying
around with hominid DNA in the late 2200's, scientists at the
University of Kampala were, in fact, learning a great deal about
human genetics. The subsequent accident in 2292 was said to have
set back the field of research perhaps as much as thirty years,
and the extension of the 2243 ban significantly slowed down the
rate at which science could catch up. Despite these hindrances,
however, corporations carried out secret research off planet,
finally culminating in the early 2330's with the development of
broad-spectrum antiviral vaccinations. With the Terran
inoculation of 2336, humankind had virtually licked the common
cold, something that medical experts had only dreamed about for
hundreds of years.
   This event revitalized the medical research profession,
lending new impetus to the fight against human suffering which
had been for so long cheapened and abused by the morally
questionable and occasionally dangerous products of medical
science. Nerve refusion techniques were developed through the
2370's and 80's, and the first broad-spectrum antitoxin was
introduced in 2419, a virtual cure-all against entire classes of
disease. By this time, however, corporations campaigned openly
for the right to re-initiate genetic research on human DNA
without having to conduct their operations in secrecy. However,
fears over the creation of "superhumans" still lingered in the
public subconscious, and corporate sentiments failed to turn over
this legislation.


2374-2470  Resurgence of Religion

With the interstellar exploration and colonization well underway,
the popular media began anticipating the contact of intelligent
alien life forms while prominent scientists began staking their
reputations on the prospect of first contact being just around
the corner. However, "just around the corner" never came, and as
radio transmitted reports of lifeless planets and primitive
bacterial ecosystems came back to earth, the scientific opinion
began to waver. It seemed as though humankind was very much alone
in the universe. The initial evolutionary steps were simply too
difficult and improbable to support a "teeming universe"
hypothesis.
   The outlook seemed so bleak that scientists reversed their
stands, now questioning whether there was any intelligent life
other than humankind, and if not, then what fortune led to the
rise of sentience on Earth? This philosophical climate led to a
resurgence of religion, Pope Joseph IX declaring from his lofty
pulpit in 2374 that after hundreds of years of struggling, men of
science had finally arrived to the true knowledge which was
always offered them by God. Each new "negative" discovery seemed
to confirm this statement, and Catholicism found billions of new
converts who hoped to cash in on the gift of immortality just as
the human race had cashed in on its "gift" of the Universe.
   However, with the resurgence of religion, so came a new
division among people. While the majority of the world's people
moved toward monotheism, and Catholicism in particular, several
of the eastern nations diverged, holding true to the more ancient
eastern faiths. These deep rooted differences combined with a
yearning for independence from U.N. dictates led to open
animosities between the eastern and western nations during the
early 25th century. Unrest continued to ferment until 2443 when
Xao Ti Xang defied United Nations authority by funding human
geneticists from the Humanix Corporation and allowing the
development of super-intelligent humans in China.
   This open schism over the nature and course of human
development generated terrorist actions in China during the
following two decades which were countered by bacteriological
offensives against supporting nations. An estimated twenty
million people died in these reprisals, leading to further
escalation of the crisis when the Catholic Pope declared a holy
war against those who would play God. This militant Catholicism
led to the outbreak of the Yama bug in China in 2467, however
advances in medical science managed to exterminate the dreaded
virus, through only after a death toll of 570 million. Rather
then respond in kind, the Chinese government unveiled the Lu Yueh
virus in 2470, an engineered suborganism capable of mutating
itself beyond even the reach of the broadest antitoxins. The Pope
called for courage, continuing to demand that the heathens leave
the devices of life and death to God alone as the United Nations
Secretary General demanded a reunion of the global alliance at
any and all costs.


2470-2471  Harbinger from Nessus

So engaging was the new world-conflict, that when news of the UNS
Erik's discovery of a somewhat more advanced ecosystem on New
Amsterdam reached Earth in 2447, the Terran media scarcely took
notice. It thus came as a fortuitous coincidence that in 2470,
just as world war seemed imminent, radio transmissions reporting
startling discoveries on Nessus reached Earth. Nessus, a world
emersed in what appeared to be an artificially produced
greenhouse atmosphere was literally strewn with ancient ruins. It
appeared, for the first time in human history, that humankind
might not be alone in the universe after all.
   As the United Nations poised on the edge of an invasion,
reports continued to come in about explorations to the planet's
surface. From initial data, it appeared that the Nessusan
civilization had simply faded away, as if each and every
individual had suddenly died without cause. Some alien specimens
were found in cryogenic suspension, but died during the thawing
process. By a careful analysis of the raw data, it was finally
determined by Terran geneticists a year later that the society
had fallen victim to some form of biological germ, something too
advanced for the explorers on Nessus to detect since they were
still using outdated technology. Ironically, where the explorers
lacked knowledge they seemed to lend wisdom, the immortal words
of the Alien Archeologist, Dvitro Xerxes, streaming as particles
of radio light through the vastness of space, piecing together
the final whispers of an alien people who died some forty million
years before humans learned to build fires. This harbinger to
Earth's own imminent destiny proved so power that support for the
U.N. invasion of China immediately collapsed.


2443-2568  Genetic Evolutions

When corporations were finally given free reign to develop a
super-intelligent human with the full backing of the Chinese
government, genetic engineers flocked to Beijing from all over
the solar system. The resources put into the project were
enormous from the very beginning, however, unlike Dr. Eski, these
researchers had no naturally evolved genetic model upon which to
base their work. Therefore, the quest was likened to a grope in
the darkness, when after numerous attempts, science had as its
best example of experimental success produced only a colony of
sterile, psychotic deviants.
   Humanix was finally bought out by Femm Biolabs in 2470, during
the uncertainty of the mounting U.N. invasion. Femm immediately
diverted corporate resources toward the physical manipulation of
the human species, something which was considered far more
attainable by science, and the decision proved successful in 2502
with the unveiling of water-breathing sapiens who, though
genetically fragile, were nonetheless capable of reproduction.
   Japanese and Australian opposition to the creationists finally
caved-in to business pressures as new corporations raced to
catch-up in what soon became known as the Race of Evolutions.
However, just as anxiety had grown three centuries earlier when
the prospect of a race of superpeople loomed in the mind of
ordinary man, so was there a resurgence of activity from various
fronts attempting to regulate the flow of government sponsored
research dollars as U.N. Articles were instated effectively
enslaving the newborn species even as they arrived.
   Between 2510 and 2568, a plethora of human variants reached
the market, one adapted for cold weather, another for extremes of
heat, another with the ability to soar by the use of wings, and
still others, often created as midgets, with little more than a
dog's mentality and often purchased as household pets. Progress
on the intellectual side of the genetic coin was finally achieved
in the 50's and 60's with the development of super-intelligent
children whose increased learning ability and pre-implanted
knowledge threatened standard humans on a more psychological
level. However, the majority of these creations were non-viable,
unable to reproduce as does a true species, though, with time
geneticists promised that they would learn the secrets of life
itself, not merely of its modification.
   However, whether unfortunate or inevitable, the proverbial
excrement finally hit the spinning rotor-blade in 2565 when a
scientist defecting from the More Perfect Human Corporation
stated to the media that a psionic child had been born. Suddenly
faced with the prospect of mind-invasion and a whole host of
alien mental powers, anti-creationist groups gained increased
political power, finally forcing the passage of a U.N. Resolution
in 2568 declaring Earth a standard-human zone. Individuals could
either apply for special wavers to harbor non-standards or move
off-planet. This resolution put a virtual stop to the
creationists who relied on government sponsorship for a majority
of their research and development and on the Terran consumer for
a substantial market. In an attempt to continue the rally, the
Chinese agreed to sponsor psionic research off-planet, however,
in 2576 the U.N. extended its 2568 resolution to the entire solar
system.


           _   /|
           \`o_O'
             ( )     <---  jimv@ucrmath.ucr.edu
              U            ucsd!ucrmath!jimv (uucp)
          Aachk!
        Phft! Ftp!


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2615
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 91 12:05:26 EDT
From: Dan Corrin <dan@engrg.uwo.ca>
Subject: Re:  Random Alien Generation


On the subject of random Alien Generation. The GURPS uplift supplement
does a wonderful job. It has many pages devoted to the generation of
client species suitable for uplift (ie. Intelligence, and society).

			-Dan

Dan Corrin, Network Manager, Mechanical Engineering, UWO, London, Ontario
TML/CZ FTP site coordinator:     dan@engrg.uwo.ca.        (519) 661-3834

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2616
Date:     Tue, 16 Jul 91 14:04:48 EDT
From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Re:  (2606) Random Alien Generation

I resist the notion of random alaien generation in general, since this is
supoosed to be a game that makes sense (-8, which random things don't always
do.  I might be inclined to look into the Alien Generation methods in
GURPS (_Aliens_ for Space, and _Uplift_) which are not random.  Translating
the results back into Traveller may or may not be a problem--I haven't
tried so I don't know.

Rob Dean


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2617
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 91 15:41:57 CDT
From: Cynthia Higginbotham <cynthia@CS.MsState.Edu>
Subject: starship prices & economics

Scott Kellog writes:

>Actually, Cynthia, have you checked out the archives of vehicles?  I'm not
>certain, but I'm pretty sure that Rob Dean posted a MegaTrav Leviathan
>from the GDW adventure.  Before you spend a lot of effort I think you might
>take a look at what designs are already available.
 
*chuckle*  Too late!  I re-designed the Leviathan months ago, long before I
went ftp-spelunking in the archives and found the other version.  Leviathan
always one of Steve and mine's favorite ships, so re-creating it under
MegaT was one of my high priority design jobs.

    I am, however, happily lifting any and all designs I find in the archives
or floating by in new and old TML bundles.  I never would have the time to
design so many ships, and I never would have thought of half of them.  (In
particular, I never would have invented the Sword Worlds Overlord Heli-carrier.
Is it just my imagination, or does that thing bear more than a passing
resemblance to the S.H.I.E.L.D. Helicarrier?)

Scott Kellogg: 

>2) About, Price of components dropping.  Well, I see your point, but
>I don't quite agree.  At TL6 hard steel is first used, maybe a TL15 corp
>can produce it cheaper, but that money would probably go into a higher
>profit margin for the manufacturer.  After all, The consumer is willing to
>pay the extra at TL6, so we fix the price and rake in more cash!
>   The thing that will really make prices drop is if the company can
>make a lot of a certain unit,  Increased volume, decreased cost.
>ie.  The one millionth grav unit produced is going to cost less than the
>second the company produced.  On the other hand, that cash is again
>probably not going to be passed on to the consumer.

    Hmmm, well, I tend to feel that is dependent on the economic situation,
and is not something that should be hardcoded into the design sequence.  Let
me put it this way: what you say holds true if the supplier has monopoly; in
a competitive situation, prices will lower as production costs lower.  Compare
the prices of a PC today with the price of an IBM PC at date of introduction
in 1981, or worse yet, with that of CP/M machines (Gawd, I'm dating myself!)
a couple years before that.  Not only that, compare the capabilities of 
a "standard" PC (386SX, 1 meg memory, 40 meg HD, VGA) with that of a "standard"
PC then (8088, 64-128K memory, 1 360K floppy (actually introduced with 1 
128K floppy), and monochrome text-only).  Capability has gone up and prices 
have gone down!  In a purely market-driven, competitive situation, this is
what will happen.  Personally, I think either prices are fixed due to collusion

between the megacorps and the Imperium, in which case small yards will offer
better deals just to get a slice of the action, or free market conditions
rule, in which case prices should probably be figured as they are for Vargr
worlds -- different each place.  You could calculate them randomly, or 
somebody could modify them for trade classes, etc.  However, given that we
want some baseline "book value" for our starships, said "book value" should
at least represent the actual change in value of things due to technological
improvement in the item itself, and in the production process.

Scott Kellogg:
>Personally My feeling is that ships are too cheap.  Look at the cost of a
>single TL8-9 radar evading bomber:  approx 500 million$, if rate of
>exchange is approx 1Cr=1$, then the B-2 cost much more than a lot of
starships!

    There are various bizarre reasons why the price of American military
equipment is artificially high.  These have to do with the high R&D costs to
secure a government contract, and the need to recover those costs even if
Congress or the Pentagon decides to cut off the production run after 1
plane/ship/tank has rolled out of the factory; the often very short production
runs (how many Kennedy class aircraft carriers are we building?) that 
disallow any of the advantages of mass production; and so on.  Perhaps
you could represent these factors by disallowing the 80% discount from any
military craft that aren't produced by the thousands.  Or, you could rule
that my modifications do not apply to military production.
    I tend to look at ship design from the point of view of building civilian
and Scout service vehicles, rather than Navy/Army/Marine stuff.  From the 
non-military point of view, the pricing is completely cock-eyed.  You compared
the cost of a B-2 to a starship; compare the cost of a small Great Lakes
freighter to a starship.  A long time ago, you all discussed the fact that
a Free Trader can barely make bank payments, let alone enough to let the
owner retire in comfort.  No real conclusion was reached.  Let me point out
that in the real world, people don't start businesses that they don't expect
to make money at; and if they fail, 100 other people don't immediately follow
in their footsteps in the same business.  For the MT universe to function as
depicted, starships must be profitable to own and operate, or there will be
no interstellar trade.  The problem is, as written, the profitability of a
merchant ship DROPS as size increases.  I now turn this post over to Steve,
who has been sitting in a corner quietly running numbers through a 
calculator.

Steve Higginbotham:

Cynthia mis-states the basic problem - profitability decreases as PERFORMANCE
increases.  A free trader (jump-1, 1-G) will be MARGINALLY profitable even if
your free trader is 5000 displacement tons.
HOWEVER, let's look at the basic unit of passenger transport in the Imperium -
the Tukera long-liner (why is it the basic unit?? because the various published
information about Tukera over the years all say so.  In the Core, there are no
other passenger ships.)

A Tukera long liner (Type RT) costs 247.08MCr.  Therefore it requires an
initial investment of 49.4 MCr.  Note that if this money were deposited into a
bank at 4.5% per annum, it would earn the owner MCr 2.223 per year.
The starship owner must make the following payments (per year) : 

               ship payments : MCr 12.354
               maintenance   : MCr  0.247
               crew salaries : MCr  0.144 (approximately - this is the most
                                   variable part - salaries are a function of
                                   skill levels, among other things)
               life support  : MCr  2.500 (this cost requirement is silly, but
                                   the rules use them, so I will, too)
               insurance     : MCr ??? (let's ignore this, or subsume it into
                                   the ship's payments - too many variables)

               total         : MCr 15.245

The ship's revenues are as follows (with various loading assumptions listed)

               passengers : (100%) : MCr  8.400
                            ( 90%) : MCr  7.650
                            ( 75%) : MCr  6.250
                            ( 60%) : MCr  5.100

               freight    : (100%) : MCr  3.247
                            ( 90%) : MCr  2.922
                            ( 75%) : MCr  2.435
                            ( 60%) : MCr  1.948

               Totals     : (100%) : MCr 11.647
                            ( 90%) : MCr 10.572
                            ( 75%) : MCr  8.685
                            ( 60%) : MCr  7.048


Notice that the best case assumption produces losses of MCr 3.598 per annum.
I personally disbelieve in the 100% assumption.  I prefer the 90% assumption,
since I believe that there would be more ships running the route if there was a
higher demand, and I disbelieve that the ship was created with the EXACT size
to move the people that want to be moved all the time.  However, I digress.

Using the 100% assumption, at the end of the mortgage period, the ship-owner is
in debt to the tune of MCr 193.32.  With the ship payments removed, that debt
will be cleared in 22 more years.

So, at the end of 62 years, your starship will BEGIN to make money for you. 
Note that this discounts the need to amortize the debt induced over the years. 
If that assumption is made, the ship will break even after 75+ years.

After that, the ship will make the owner MCr 8.755 per year.  Since the
effective life span of a ship is about 100 years (source : old Traveller),
the ship will make the owner MCr 332.7 over it's lifetime (IF he has a full
load EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THOSE 2500 FLIGHTS.

Over the same period, the owner would have made MCr 3981.073 by putting the
initial investment in the bank at 4.5%.

I have never heard of an investor getting rich by putting his money in a
savings account.  I have also never heard of an investor getting rich on an
investment with a LOWER return than a bank (by a factor of SEVEN).  I can't
even recall ever hearing of an investor who MADE an investment like that
twice.  I suspect that they are all collecting Welfare now.

In fact, that analysis can be applied to EVERY merchant ship ever designed for
MT.  Virtually all J-3 ships will tend to suck up money for generations.  MOST
J-2 ships will also.  Given that the J-2 ships are primarily passenger ships,
with adequate stewards, they can come out slightly ahead.  They don't come out
ahead of the savings account, but that is someone else's problem.  J-1 ships
will mostly make a little money.  They even make more money than a savings
account.  Not quite so much as most Money Market accounts, but, again someone
else's problem.

Note that fuel costs were ignored in this discussion.  It can be demonstrated
that it is more cost-effective to buy fuel at a starport than to use wilderness
refueling.  Therefore the profits indicated will never actually be achieved by
a ship.  ALAS!

Cynthia has just suggested that passenger/freight fees could be raised. 
Possibly.  In a normal economy, doing so would encourage local development of
resources, rather than interstellar trade.  More people would stay home, and
ships would be in worse shape than ever.  Besides, there are indications that
the Imperium regulates passenger/freight fees to the existing levels.

As to the suggestion that the starships operate by spec trade rather than
freight consignment, this IS possible.  It is also possible (probable, in fact)
that the smart investor will buy the stuff up WITHOUT pouring money into a
starship, and ship it as freight.  Let some other fool lose money by buying a
ship.  There will always be idiots who go broke doing this, who can be milked
by an alert investor.  Note that in the case of a subsidized route, the
government is the idiot in question, and the populace is the entity being
milked by the alert investor.

Therefore, most investors will NOT invest in a starship, which will lose them
gobs of money, but rather make use of someone else's starship (so someone else
can lose gobs of money, while you MAKE gobs of money).  There is every
indication (from the tables) that only a small ship (400 tons or less) can make
any significant amount of money by spec trade.  Significant in terms of
starship payments.  If there was that much money to be made, Tukera would get
an exclusive contract, and the profit to a starship owner would vanish.  

The upshot is that no ship will ever make enough money to convince the buyer to
buy it.  So either there are NO ships, or the government buys and runs them
all, to the detriment of the private sector (read: PCs).  Or we lower ship
costs.  Which we did.

Notice that in the Vargr Extants, ship prices can be as much as 30% lower than
normal.  This might lead one to suspect that virtually all ships are made in
the Extants, or that there is a major black-market in Vargr ships (if the
Imperium tries to control ship prices at that arbitrarily high level).


					--- Steve & Cynthia Higginbotham


P.S. Does anybody remember the cheap "standard" hulls from Old Traveller Book
2?  And the cheap A & B jump drives?  Where did those go?  And why?

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2618
Date:    Wed, 17 Jul 91 08:39 EDT
From: "D. Jay Newman 863-1555" <DN5@PSUVM.PSU.EDU>
Subject: Starship economics.

>A long time ago, you all discussed the fact that
>a Free Trader can barely make bank payments, let alone enough to let the
>owner retire in comfort.  No real conclusion was reached.  Let me point out
>that in the real world, people don't start businesses that they don't expect
>to make money at; and if they fail, 100 other people don't immediately follow
>in their footsteps in the same business.

Actually, in the real world, roughly 2/3 of all small businesses fold
within three years, because they weren't profitable.  I've been told
that the single biggest reason for this is that they expected to make
a profit too quickly, and hence didn't have enough starting capital.

>The problem is, as written, the profitability of a
>merchant ship DROPS as size [Jay: actually performance] increases.

Actually, this was a problem that I saw back in the original Traveller,
and have corrected every time I was GM (and in most games I wasn't).
Basically, it would be more consistant to charger freight and
passengers for distance, rather than jumps!  In the real world airlines,
the cost of a ticket is related to the fuel used by the planes.
Real world freight charges are for distance.  In special cases, fast
delivery costs MUCH extra.

In the traveller case, a ship that goes Jump-6 distance should get
the same base rate if the ship is Jump-1 capable or Jump-6 capable.
Actually, the Jump-6 ship should get a premium for certain types of
cargo (anything which is time-specific); even without the premium,
it has fewer expenses and can make more distance during a year than
a Jump-1 capable ship.

I haven't run the numbers, but even with this system (but without
a premium for faster delivery), I'm not sure that a J-6 ship would
be the most profitable.  It would have much less cargo space, due
to increased fuel and engine sizes.  I have the feeling that the
most profitable merchant ship would be around J-3 or 4, but that
is mostly guesswork.

[Please forgive me if I am wrong about how freight charges work; the
GM who ran the only MegaTraveller game I was in told me this was
the way things worked, and he had never seen the original Traveller.
I figure if he thought it worked this way, he read it in the rules.
I do know that it worked this way in the original rules, and I thought
it was stupid then.  Please email any flames.]

()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()
D. Jay Newman          ! Fate: it protects fools, little children,
dn5@psuvm.psu.edu      ! and ships named Enterprise... (Cmdr. Riker)
CBEL--Teaching and Learning Technologies Group

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2619
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 91 08:59:25 -0700
From: Brian G. Vaughan <bvaughan@ocf.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject: re:  Stable Tech vs. Stale Tech


There are several things that have been missed in the discussions of the
levels of technology in the Imperium.

First, and most important, is that you must always bear in mind that the
Imperium has an extremely diverse range of cultures.  I have been considering
writing an article about it, but I'll summarize my ideas here.  We know that
there are forty-two branches of the human race, each of which possesses several
cultural strains within it, which have their roots in their pre-stellar
histories.  These cultural elements, in most cases, have not completely died
out, and many human cultures continue to develop and thrive.  Most such
cultures are dominant on only a handful of worlds each.  Some minor human races,
the Darrians, for example, have a wider influence.  The two most widespread
human cultural traditions are, of course, those of the Solomani and the Vilani.

Now, each of these cultural traditions carries with it a complex of attitudes
toward the nature and purposes of technology.  The Imperium has developed
a super-culture, which is what we generally think of when we talk about the
Imperium, but this super-culture is participated in by a relatively small
number of Imperial citizens:  the nobility, officials of the Imperial
government, members of Imperial services (the Scouts, especially), and
merchants.  Most others do not have the need or resources to participate in
this super-culture.  But I'm digressing.

The Imperial super-culture is made up of many disparate cultural elements, but
especially of Solomani and Vilani elements.  And we know how radically different
the Solomani and Vilani attitudes towards technology are.  The Solomani tend
to believe that technological advancement is inherently good.  The Vilani tend
to be much more suspicious of technology.

You can see the effects of these disparate attitudes manifested in many ways
in the Imperium.  There are High Stellar worlds distributed throughout the
Imperium.  But most TL 16 worlds are in Massilia sector--the rimward side of
the Imperial core.  Old Expanses sector has, if I remember correctly, more
TL 15 worlds than any other Imperial sector.  Vland sector, on the other hand,
has a wider distribution of technology levels, and several subsector capitals
aren't even in the High Stellar range, though Vland sector is the longest-
settled sector in the Imperium.

The difference between Solomani and Vilani attitudes is even more striking if
you look at worlds in the Solomani Confederation.  MOST WORLDS IN THE SOLOMANI
CONFEDERATION ARE HIGH STELLAR!

According to the World Builder's Handbook, by Tech Level 10, it is possible to
create cities in ANY environment.  Thus, in a sense, there is no need for
technology more advanced than TL 10.  Thus, I think, the Imperial attitude,
growing out of the Vilani attitude, is that it is a waste of effort to raise
the level of technology on a world above that required to meet the conditions
of that world.  That technology does continue to advance is due to the
neccesity of possessing the latest military technology, and the universal
desire for better medical care, as well as the Solomani tendency to love tech
for its own sake.

BTW, I suspect that an additional consideration is that worlds in the Imperium
tend to desire considerable autonomy and self-sufficiency.  The Solomani 
Confederation is willing to sacrifice self-sufficiency for nearly universal
high levels of technology.  This, I believe, made it relatively easy for the
Imperium to reconquer the Solomani Rim in the Solomani Rim war, and relatively
difficult for the Solomani to seize Imperial worlds in the Rebellion.

------------------------------

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun Jul 21 21:00:08 PDT 1991
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #215: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
2620  17-Jul-91 jimv@ucrmath      Traveller Tales - 3 of 5 << Greetings & Saliv
2621  17-Jul-91 "Mark Power"       << I've been working on my combat system, an
2622  17-Jul-91 "Robert S. Dean"  Re: (2617) starship prices & economics << Cyn
2623  17-Jul-91 "Robert S. Dean"  A few more designs... << I'm gradually workin
2624  17-Jul-91 "Sleep...what a c Re: Random Alien Generation << I think random
2625  18-Jul-91 matth@earth.njit. Random Alien Generation << I think that the D
2626  18-Jul-91 Adrian Hurt       Combat rules << "Mark Power" <MARK@gsb2.his.u
2627  18-Jul-91 bolo%garfield.cs. Re: more planetary defences << (Warning: I te

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2620
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 91 10:04:52 PDT
From: jimv@ucrmath (jim vassilakos)
Subject: Traveller Tales - 3 of 5


   Greetings & Salivations!
         from your friendly & faithful Vargr historian
                         (woof woof)
               Hereby presenting the hump episode of...

                       Traveller Tales

        being an encapsulated history of future time

               Copyright 1991 Jim Vassilakos
                 (for whatever it's worth)

            A.D. 2568-3516  *  The Corporate Era

 
   2568-2597  The Beanstalk
   2597-2663  Unearthly Plunder
   2663-2710  Foundations of Anarchy
   2710-2741  Open Defiance
   2741-2872  The Corporate War
   2794-2911  War Technologies
   2887-2969  Post-War Exodus
   2969-3130  Total Producer Monopolization
   2981-3210  Age of Wonder
   3210-3223  The Tomorrow War
   3223-3309  Mutant Rebellions
   3309-3516  Period of Recovery



2568-2597  The Beanstalk

With the 2568 U.N. creation of a standard-human zone around
Earth, advancing biogenetics was effectively forced off-planet,
causing the displacement of tens of millions of highly educated
corporate personnel. With the sudden influx of out-world traffic,
combined with the industrial, service, and clerical personnel who
were sure to follow, the U.N. stepped up plans for the renovation
of the world spaceport, culminating in the construction of what
was to become popularly known as the Beanstalk, a ground to space
station over seventy thousand kilometers in overall length.


2597-2663  Unearthly Plunder

With the beanstalk's finalization in '97, space imports grew at
an alarming rate, flushing out entire earth-bound industries as
the use of "mutant" labor gave off-world firms a competitive
advantage. Mitsubishi invested heavily in offworld trade and
transport, sinking considerable assets into a major corporate
gamble. During this period, samples of alien bacteria and
primitive lifeforms began appearing on earth. Some were sold for
research, but others were distributed through the black market to
wealthy collectors for exorbitant prices.
   Although most of these organisms proved less hardy than their
Terran equivalents, wide-spread outcry resulted concerning the
public's protection. Following the discovery of an advanced
ecosystem on Darwin IV, the U.N. instated the Orbital Quarantine
Command as a protective measure against the infestation of alien
organisms. However, the passage of the Nakamura Resolution in '63
caused the OQC to evolve into a protectionist trade barrier,
crippling off-world industry from doing business in the Terran
market.


2663-2710  Foundations of Anarchy

With the close of the Terran market in '63, competition between
off-world corporations intensified eventually forcing the
interstellar conglomeration of what was to be known as the big
three: Mitsubishi, Aster, and Femm. By the turn of the century,
the tensions of trade competition threatened to spill over into
open conflict. Fleets of war vessels were built, and each
conglomerate controlled its offworld business as though it were a
separate nation-state, creating it's own laws and effectively
ignoring the edicts of colonial governments. The ice finally
broke with the Martian ultimatum of 2710, when the Aster
Corporation charged Femm with contract violations in the joint
terraformation project. Due to political interests, both parties
refused U.N. arbitration, but instead set-up a private
arbitration council consisting only of non-Terran interests.


2710-2741  Open Defiance

With the success of the Martian accords, the terraformation of
Mars, Venus, and Titan which all began in the early 23rd century
neared the completion stages. However, the inner-system
importation of "mutants" in the early part of the 28th century
led the U.N. to threaten police action for the violation of the
standard-human zone. Aster and Femm agreed to submit the issue
for arbitration, but only to a non-Terran arbitration council.
The U.N. refused to agree to this condition, and sent warships to
enforce its will. Before they arrived, however, Femm's public
affairs office, on Earth, threatened the release of undisclosed
biological contaminants if the Terran warships reached their
destination. The threat was later proven a bluff, but it gave the
big three time to organize fleets within the solar system,
resulting in the 2nd Martian accords of 2741.


2741-2872  The Corporate War

The 2nd Martian accords saw a cessation of U.N. domination of the
solar system and a loosening of quarantine restrictions with a
corresponding collapse of Terran trade barriers. However, the
accords also brought Mitsubishi to its knees with the
domestication of its Earth-bound facilities which came under the
control of the newly formed Terran conglomerate. Despite this,
however, Aster and Femm continued to grow in power, waging a
trade war against the untested Terran Corporation until
Mitsubishi managed to claim reparations for it's domesticated
facilities. It was, thus, clear that the megacorporations were
acting as a single economic entity.
   The quasi-peace was short-lived, however, as within a decade,
news arrived from Durhael, one of Earth's most distant colonies,
that the shattered core of a nova had been discovered. This news,
though unheralded by the mass-media, carried extreme weight with
the scientific community, as it was hypothesized for several
centuries that the eka-metals (heavy elements) to be found within
such an astronomical find could be used to tear the "fabric" of
multi-dimensional space at the subatomic level, in effect,
opening the possibility for faster-than-light travel.
   Although technically owned by the Terran Corporation under the
2741 accords, the Aster corporation was in a far better position
to claim the find as it's own, and this is exactly what it did.
In order to protect its position, however, Aster began a conquest
of the entire arm leading to Durhael. Noting the opportunity to
rid Terra's influence in corporate space, the Mitsubishi and Femm
conglomerates jumped to Aster's side, their offensive sweeping
the entirety of Terra's immediate colonies, culminating in the
decisive corporate victory in the battle of Osgiliath in 2872.


2794-2911  War Technologies

The Corporate War led to the hastened development of mutant
technologies, when in 2794, Femm geneticists located the psi-gene 
and later incorporated psionic attributes and biocybernetics in
its infamous line of mass-cloned Okuma war-mutants of the early
29th century. The 2830's saw major breakthroughs in artificial
sentience, and various degrees of self-aware computers were
deployed in Aster's Shambler series of self-replicating predator
vessels akin to the Von Neumann robotic miners of the 23rd
century. The discovery which ended the war, however, came in
2852, with the Mitsubishi-AI's derivation of the famed Deagol
equation which, utilizing Eka-metals, actualized hyperspace
travel as a technical hypothesis. In a joint venture with Aster,
Mitsubishi developed the technology during the late 50's, and
actual starships were in deployment by the middle 60's.
   Several spin-off sciences were either invented or
serendipitously arrived at during the following decades,
including the rudiments of matter transportation during the late
80's, genetic reconstruction of the 30th century's first decade,
and the anagathics discovery of 2911.


2887-2969  Post-War Exodus

After the conclusion of the Corporate War, the big three began
consolidating the conquered territories, driving out the smaller
independents and monopolizing huge chunks of the colonial
economy. Psychohistorians predicted a future war far bloodier
than the Corporate War, this to be fought between the big three
with a sharp trend toward political-economic centralization
during the interim. A symposium of wealthy industrialists met on
Terra in 2887 to discuss these economic developments and
psychohistorical prognostications, and a coalition of
independents was formed the following year, the focus of the pact
turning toward a mass-exodus of the colonized regions.
   Plans were made, and the exodus began with the departure of
the Ash in 2909, which carried over a million cryogenically
suspended colonists. Other vessels departed over the following
six decades for various systems in the Persei and Cassiopeiae
clusters. The project finally failed in '69 due to the bankruptcy
of its sponsorship.


2969-3130  Total Producer Monopolization

With the failure of the Exodus Fund in '69, it became apparent
that the ultimate goal of the big three was total market
monopolization. By the 80's, even Earth was not exempt from the
trends, the Terran corporation finding itself slowly crushed and
later purchased at bargain rates by Mitsubishi in 3010. Standard
human labor was largely replaced with mutant slaves from the
frontier, and by the turn of the millennium, billions of Terrans
were effectively selling themselves and their families into the
same corporate institution which had deprived them of their
livelihoods.
   During the next hundred and twenty years, the Aster-Femm-
Mitsubishi conglomerate carried out a meticulous campaign of
isolating and destroying the millions of smaller independent
firms which still remained, finally officially merging into the
AFM Corporation in 3130. The three controlling families became
intertwined by a series of arranged marriages, and the ancient
institution of nepotism became a model for ensuring the future
peace.


2981-3210  Age of Wonder

The era of peace gave rise to many new sciences as AFM's separate
components competed against each other without traditional
government restraints. Thus, although there were tremendous
technological advances, the median standard of living actually
declined during the period, leading to urban unrest which was
largely contained via brute force techniques employed by the
corporate authorities.
   During this period, teleportation and hyperspace projection
technologies became widely utilized as forms of transportation.
Communication technologies evolved to encompass a wide host of
FTL-particles, making interstellar communication next to
instantaneous. Finally, the first Tau-fields and pocket universes
became realities.
   However, with the rapid pace of technology, a great deal of
power fell into the hands of those with the most direct control
over scientists and knowledge-based resources. Thus, corporate
power became more and more decentralized as individual upper
managers and groups of middle managers combined resources in
several ill-fated attempts to overthrow the ownership and seize
control of AFM or to create breakaway divisions under independent
ownership. As always, the corporate response was as ruthless as
it was decisive.


3210-3223  The Tomorrow War

What followed the Age of Wonder is perhaps the least understood
period of history. Apparently, an era of terrible warfare between
the corporate divisions erupted sometime in the 35th century, but
spread backwards in time, to the year 3210. This was the year to
which the Mitsubishi Division, in its dying gasp, sent a
prototype starship capable of travelling through both space and
time. The starship, named the Mitsubishi Maru, was expected to
arrive before the discovery of alternate temporal realities and
to destroy Asterian and Femm research centers, thereby creating a
timeline in which Mitsubishi might rule all of humanity.
   However, another vessel followed the Maru backwards through
the temporal continuum, this one named the Asterian War Dragon.
The two vessels met several times in battle until 3216 when they
destroyed each other in a fiery climax. The captain of the War
Dragon, nicknamed "Draconius" by the war's spectators, survived
the final battle and was appointed admiral of the Asterian fleets
a year later. With the war now ignited, the corporations
continued to fight until 3223 when Mitsubishi was finally forced
to submit unconditionally.
   Returning to Terra, Draconius turned against corporate
ownership in a surprise bombardment of his own victory parade,
assassinating each member of the ruling family in a single
stroke. The attack left a vacuum of power, to which Femm's
management could only have a single response.


3223-3309  Mutant Rebellions

The Femm Corporation had never had large war fleets. Instead of
technical hardware, it concentrated on the manufacture of
biological organisms. However, within each organism it produced,
it created a sort of emergency-lever which could be pulled via
the application of trace amounts of a specific chemical. Once
pulled, the organism would be psychologically transformed from an
obedient slave into an insane killing machine.
   Thus, the 3223 assassination of Femm's ownership saw the
beginning of the Mutant Rebellions and the corresponding
breakdown of corporate government into total anarchy. Over half
of the human population perished during the first ten years of
the rebellion as Draconius used his fleets to crush one outbreak
of violence after another. It wasn't until the middle of the
century that the cause of the rebellions was even understood, and
not until the 80's that antidotes were synthesized. The fighting
finally ended in 3309, with over nine-tenths of the human
population slaughtered during the interim.


3309-3516  Period of Recovery

The next two centuries saw a slow period of recovery as Draconius
"entitled" old AFM executives and their families with large
provinces while charging them with various duties including
social welfare, economic recovery, maintenance of the peace, and
the administration of justice. This policy saw the foundations of
Imperial bureaucracy and the caste system within which it became
rooted, resulting, ultimately, in the coronation of Draconius as
Emperor in 3516.

           _   /|
           \`o_O'
             ( )     <---  jimv@ucrmath.ucr.edu
              U            ucsd!ucrmath!jimv (uucp)
          Aachk!
        Phft! Ftp!


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2621
From: "Mark Power"  <MARK@gsb2.his.uab.edu>
Date:     17 Jul 91 13:08:28 CDT
Subject:  

I've been working on my combat system, and I need to make a decision about
automatic weapons.  There are several ways to handle auto fire weapons.

1) Increase the chance to hit.
     This is how Azhanti High Lightning and Striker handled them. Since
     these form the basis of ranged combat in my system, I'd been planning
     to use this.

2) Increase the damage.
     To simulate the effect of multiple hits.  A popular way of handling
     automatic weapons in other games systems.  Tends to make them very
     deadly.

3) Allow multiple hits on the target, rolling seperately for each one.
     This is perhaps the most accurate way, but you pay a cost in playing
     time.  It can also unbalance the game -- if you allow a player to roll
     10 seperate attacks for a burst from a gauss rifle, the target is
     almost always going to be chopped into hamburger.

4) Determine to hit normally, and then determine a percentage of shots that
     hit the target.  This could be done with a seperate roll, or as part of
     the to-hit roll.  Mark Cook and Iain Fogg use this in their Firefight
     rules.

None of the above inherently disallow some mechanism for hitting multiple
targets, either deliberately or accidentally.  Shotguns and flechettes might
or might not be handled the same way as automatic weapons.

Play testing has resulted in some mild dissatifaction in the current system.
Does anyone have any suggestions or strong feelings on this?

Mark

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2622
Date:     Wed, 17 Jul 91 15:02:38 EDT
From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Re:  (2617) starship prices & economics

Cynthia and Steve:

     Another meaty post...I wish I had the time this week to respond to
everything, but I don't.  As a result, I'll just hit a few high points.
Is there any possibility that you could upload your ship designs including
the price both with and without variant calculations?   That would make
life easier on everyone, as those of us who might be inclined to use some of
them can do so without needing to refigure the cost.  Similarly, I try to
make sure that all of my uploads contain enough information to allow people
to undo my variations in the designs without extensive recalculation.  As
someone who doesn't do these things on a computer (except for the word
processing part) avoiding recalculations is always a high priority..(-8.

     Personally, I try not to get too worked up over some of the lacunae
in the design system.  Clearly, things like computers ought to get better
as TL increases, on about the same scale as communicators.  But as long as
all vehicles are designed with the same handicaps, I don't worry about it.
Now something like Scott's Indianapolis series fusion rocket fighter planes
are another matter entirely...COACC doesn't fit in well with the Ref's 
Manual, and we're still casting about for easy fixes that allow previous
work to be used (and new work to be submitted in the 'standard' format for
the benifit of those who disagree with our changes.)

     Regarding starship economics (and business economics in general):  It's
my impression that lots of people in the US currently go into business 
despite the high failure rate of small businesses because of a (misplaced?)
confidence in their ability to 'beat the odds'.  I can see this factor 
potentially at work in interstellar shipping too, although clearly the banks
would not give you such an advantageous interest rate on ship loans...

     If everyone followed the 'ship on other people's ships' for spec trade,
the demand for cargo space would probably exceed the available supply.  A
lot of the problems with Traveller trade in my opinion come from trying to
keep the system simple enough to use...which I'd bet is why they rejected the
notion of variable costs for shipping and passages.  As it is, some of my
players from other games have informed me that their GMs didn't bother with
detailed trade at all...he/she apparently just rolled dice once in a while
and handed out the money.

     When you advise against a fuel purification plant, are you taking into
account the limited availability of refined fuel and the concurrent dangers
of using unrefined fuel?  This would seem to indicate that you either don't
perceive a need to go to a starport of less than class B (or is it C?).

Rob Dean


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2623
Date:     Wed, 17 Jul 91 15:53:13 EDT
From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  A few more designs...

I'm gradually working through my project of providing TL9-TL14 versions of
all 'standard craft'.  Following are the latest entries:


Launch TL13

     This standard design launch is produced throughout the Imperium, pri-
marily as an auxiliary for cargo ships requiring some self-contained shuttle 
capability for use at ports where the ship is not able to land.  As such, it 
is not optimized for atmospheric travel.  The twelve cramped seats which are 
available for passenger transfer are designed to fold down flush with the 
floor of the cargo bay when not required, which increases cargo capacity to 
184kl.  At 160kl with seats extended, the cargo bay can hold 2 Imperial 
Standard 4 ton cargo containers, or 11 standard 1 ton containers. 
     No armament has been provided, nor has space been reserved for the 
installation of weaponry at a later date.  
 
  CraftID: Launch, TL13, MCr7.3
     Hull: 18/45, Disp=20, Config=4SL, Armor=40F, Loaded=382t,
           Unloaded=221t
    Power: 1/2, Fusion=135MW, Dur=10days
     Loco: 2/4, Maneuver=3 (Thrusters=1040t), MaxSpeed=1000kph, 
           Cruise=750kph, NOE=170kph, Agility=2, TrueAcc=2.72G
     Comm: Radio=System, LaserComm=FarOrbit
  Sensors: EMS Active(Planetary), EMS Passive(Substellar), ActObjScan=Rout, 
           ActObjPin=Rout, PassEnScan=Routine
      Off: Hardpoints=1 (no weapons mounted)
      Def: DefDM+3
  Control: CompMod0bis*3, HeadsUpDisplay*1, HoloLink*30
    Accom: Crew=2 (Pilot, Copilot), Passengers=12, Seats=ExtOccRoomy*2,
           Cramped*12, Env=basic env, basic ls, ext ls, grav plates, inert
           comp, air lock
    Other: Fuel=18kl, Fuel Scoops, Cargo=160kl (11.8t), ObjSize=Avg,
           EmLevel=Faint

Wyvern Grav Fighter TL13

     The Wyvern is a dual purpose design intended to serve as a fast attack 
vehicle and a limited duty near orbit fighter.  It is fully space rated and 
can be ground or ship based.  The Model 3 computer is intended for targetting 
and combat, but the craft can still be flown as long as at least one of the 
Model 0 computers remains functional.

  CraftID: Wyvern Grav Fighter GFV, TL13, MCr10.342
     Hull: 3/7, Disp=3, Config=1AF, Armor=40F, Loaded=132.6t, Unload=130.9t
    Power: 1/2, Fusion=126MW, Dur=24hours
     Loco: 2/4, StdGrav=770t, Max Speed=4560kph, Cruise=3420kph, NOE=170kph,
           MaxAccel=6.5G, Agility=6
     Comm: Radio=Planetary, MaserComm=Planetary
  Sensors: EMS Active(FarOrbit), EMS Passive(Interplanetary),
           ActObjScan=Rout, ActObjPin=Rout, PassEnScan=Rout
      Off: Hardpoints=1

                      Pen/          Max     Auto   Dngr
                      Attn    Dmg   Range   Tgts   Spc    Sig   ROF
         Fusion-Y Gun  71/5    30  VDist(21)  2     45     H     40

      Def: DefDM+11
  Control: CompMod0*2, CompMod3*1, HeadsUpHoloDisplay*1
    Accom: Seats=NoAccess*1 (Pilot), Env=Basic env, basic ls, extended ls,
           grav plates, inert comp
    Other: Fuel=1.8kl, Cargo=0, ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=Moderate

SIE Athelstan Class Merchant TL11

     The Athelstan class merchant ships are presently being built by SIE at 
their corporate facilities at Grote.  The unsettled situation in the Imperium 
has left SIE unable to procure ships from their usual suppliers at Glisten.  
The Athelstan is a modified Type R2 design, and is fairly typical of ships 
built in frontier areas with an integral refueling capability, a maneuver 
drive capable of making a landing while fully loaded on any inhabitable 
planet, and a full armament package.
     Unlike many other SIE vessels, the Athelstan does not ordinarily carry a 
robotic crew supplement since the supply of cheap robots has also dried up.

  CraftID: Athelstan class Merchant (Type R2 mod), TL11, MCr157.06
     Hull: 360/900, Disp=400t, Config=4SL, Armor=40E, Loaded=5828t,
           Unloaded=4296t
    Power: 20/40, Fusion=1800MW, Duration=30days 
     Loco: 18/36, Maneuver=2 (Thrusters=13000t), 11/22, Jump=2,
           Max=1000kph, Cruise=750kph, TrueAcc=2.23G, Agility=1
     Comm: Radio=System*2, LaserComm=System
  Sensors: EMS Active(Planetary), EMS Passive(Interplanetary),
           ActObjScan=Diff, ActObjPin=Diff, PassEnScan=Rout
      Off: Hardpoints=4

                Missile=x02     BeamLaser=xx3
           Batteries      1                 1
           Bearing        1                 1

      Def: DefDM+4

               SandCaster=x04
           Batteries        2
           Bearing          2

  Control: Computer Mod2*3, 8*HeadsUpDisplay, 665*DynLink
    Accom: Crew=11 (2 bridge, 2 engineer, 4 gunners, 1 command, 1 steward, 
           1 medical), Staterooms=20, Passengers=9, LowBerths=20,
           LowPassengers=20, Env=basic env, basic ls, extended ls,
           grav plates, inertial comp
    Other: Fuel=1460kl (1 jump-2+30 days), Cargo=1424kl, Missiles=60 (20b-r),
           Fuel Scoops, Fuel Purifier (24hr), ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=Moderate

Launch TL11

     This standard design launch is produced throughout the Imperium, pri-
marily as an auxiliary for cargo ships requiring some self-contained shuttle 
capability for use at ports where the ship is not able to land.  As such, it 
is not optimized for atmospheric travel. No weapons capability is provided.  
Endurance is limited to four days as long duration missions are not antici-
pated.
 
  CraftID: Launch, TL11, MCr6.05
     Hull: 18/45, Disp=20, Config=4SL, Armor=40E, Loaded=432.5t,
           Unloaded=232.2t
    Power: 1/2, Fusion=90MW, Dur=4days
     Loco: 1/2, Maneuver=2 (Thrusters=650t), MaxSpeed=600kph, 
           Cruise=450kph, NOE=40kph, Agility=1, TrueAcc=1.5G
     Comm: Radio=Planetary*2
  Sensors: Radar=Planetary, ActObjScan=Diff, ActObjPin=Diff
      Off: Hardpoints=1 (no weapons mounted)
      Def: DefDM+3
  Control: CompMod0*3, HeadsUpDisplay*1, DynLink*60
    Accom: Crew=2 (Pilot, Copilot), Passengers=4, Seats=Roomy*6, Env=basic
           env, basic ls, ext ls, grav plates, inert comp
    Other: Fuel=4.32kl, Cargo=200kl (14.8t), ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=Faint

River class Merchant (Type R) TL11

     The River class merchant conforms to the basic Imperial Type R standards 
with no enhancements.  Designed to be produced and maintained by worlds of 
average technology, it is not really suited to the difficult conditions 
imposed by our current political difficulties.  The base model, as shown 
below, is produced with no fuel purification plant and no weapons package.  
Either can be installed (and often both are), but at a cost in cargo space.  
The control system is sufficient to allow up to MCr9 of weapons to be in-
stalled. The minimal thruster installation does not permit takeoffs or land-
ings on most inhabitable planets while the ship is fully loaded.  As a re-
sult, a launch is carried to provide some limited integral shuttle capabili-
ty.  When sufficient cargo has been offloaded by the launch, the ship may 
land.  Frugal captains usually run the ship with the launch's cargo bay 
loaded if possible, which adds an additional 200kl of cargo capacity.

  CraftID: River class Merchant (Type R), TL11, MCr100.07
     Hull: 360/900, Disp=400t, Config=4SL, Armor=40E, Loaded=6125t,
           Unloaded=2820t
    Power: 11/22, Fusion=960MW, Duration=30days 
     Loco: 8/16, Maneuver=1 (Thrusters=5200t), 8/16, Jump=1,
           TrueAcc=0.85G, Agility=0
     Comm: Radio=System*2
  Sensors: EMS Active(Planetary), ActObjScan=Diff, ActObjPin=Diff
      Off: Hardpoints=4
      Def: DefDM+2
  Control: Computer Mod1*3, 4*HeadsUpDisplay, 860*DynLink
    Accom: Crew=6 (2 bridge, 2 engineer, 1 steward, 1 medical),
           Staterooms=12, Passengers=6, LowBerths=9, LowPassengers=9, 
           Env=basic env, basic ls, extended ls, grav plates, inertial comp
    Other: Fuel=886kl (1 jump-1+30 days), Cargo=2810kl, Fuel Scoops,
           ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=Moderate

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2624
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1991 18:13 CDT
From: "Sleep...what a concept." <ANANDA%BSU.DECNET@MSUS1.BITNET>
Subject: Re:  Random Alien Generation


I think random alien generation would probably make about as much sense as
random dungeon generation -- okay for bare-bones framework or perhaps
inspiration, but not for serious use without a great deal of additional work
and application of common sense.  (I _did_ say the results were rather
amusing...well, they were the last time I looked at it, which was probably a
good eight years ago.  I remeber the issue 'cause I liked the short story.) 
But someone asked about it, so I answered; what anyone does with the
information is up to them.  

As far as GURPS stuff goes, I can't comment, since I have no first-hand
knowledge of the system.  


- - -Ananda 

ananda%bsu.decnet@msus1.msus.edu  /ananda%bsu@msus1.msus.edu \__if the .decnet 
ananda%bsu.decnet@msus1.bitnet    \ananda%bsu@msus1.bitnet   /  causes problems



------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2625
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 91 01:53:17 -0400
From: matth@earth.njit.edu
Subject: Random Alien Generation 

I think that the Dragon Magazine version of Random Alien Generation was 
a bit insufficient. I think that Randomized Alien Generation is very 
important however. Consider the many millions of worlds that you have 
to deal with in the MT universe. While many of the worlds will be 
dominated by the Major Sentient races, there are still the creatures
encountered with the random encounter system. In addition, using Random 
Alien Generation will cause creatures to come into being which are not 
a mix of dog and human or cat and human, or centaurs or dolphins, all 
of which are humanocentric aliens. You can develop something really 
ALIEN with a random system. Of course you can't depend completely 
on randomness for your aliens. You should do alot of work filling in 
things like lifestyle, culture, ideology, etc. 

Matt

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2626
From: Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk>
Subject: Combat rules
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 91 10:05:12 BST

"Mark Power"  <MARK@gsb2.his.uab.edu> writes:
> 
> I've been working on my combat system, and I need to make a decision about
> automatic weapons.  There are several ways to handle auto fire weapons.
> 
> 1) Increase the chance to hit.
>      This is how Azhanti High Lightning and Striker handled them. Since
>      these form the basis of ranged combat in my system, I'd been planning
>      to use this.

Striker does two things.  You get a bonus on the to-hit roll, and for every
2 by which the roll exceeds the required number, you get an extra hit.  For
example, to hit with an ACR at effective range requires a roll of 8+.  If you
fire on full automatic, you get a +2.  I roll the dice and get a 9; with the
bonus, that's 11.  This is 3 above the required number of 8, so I score two
hits.

> 3) Allow multiple hits on the target, rolling seperately for each one.

As I say, Striker allows multiple hits without separate rolls.  What I would
then do is roll again for any shots that missed, to see if they hit the next
nearest character in the field of fire.  In the above example, the ACR fires
a burst of 4 rounds, of which 2 have been accounted for; the other 2 roll
again if there's anyone standing near the main target.  This is effectively
a burst of 2 rounds, not 4, so I'd give it a +1 DM instead of the +2.  Striker
has a table listing the bonus for a given number of rounds in a burst; it's
normally used to find the auto-fire bonus for a user-designed auto-cannon,
but can equally well be used here.

Striker also allows you to specify a group as a target, rather than a single
individual.  In this case, you roll once to hit the group; any hits are
divided as evenly as possible between the members of the group.  I don't
recall any bonus for aiming for a cluster of people rather than a single
person, unless you allow the one for target size - in which case a large,
spread out group makes an easier target than the same number of people in
a tight cluster.

>      This is perhaps the most accurate way, but you pay a cost in playing
>      time.  It can also unbalance the game -- if you allow a player to roll
>      10 seperate attacks for a burst from a gauss rifle, the target is
>      almost always going to be chopped into hamburger.

That's the whole point of using a gauss rifle!  >:-)

- - -- 
 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cs
 UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian     |  ARPA:   adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2627
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 91 10:51:55 -0500
From: bolo%garfield.cs.wisc.edu@cs.wisc.edu (Joe Burger)
Subject: Re: more planetary defences


(Warning: I tend to use traveller as an idea source for other games,
so don't end up actually playing or running trav that much, but ...)

>>   On another hand - a planetary assault may take place WITH THE CONSENT
>> of the defender - if an attacker finds himself faced with an apparently
>> impenetrable defence belt, he may just give up the idea of an assault
>> and accelerate a few medium sized asteroids at the target planet. Thus a
>> situation similar to a battle of Maldon may arise - the defender
>> granting battlespace to the attacker.

>The whole assumption in this discussion is that for some reason, the attacker
>can not/does not want to destroy the defender totally in this manner.  (Why
>was such a tactic never used during any of the Frontier Wars, by the way?)
>Otherwise, if the attacker finds himself faced with an unbeatable defence
>at any stage, he can just give up, take off and nuke the planet from orbit.

>> ...

>Fine art?  Either the attacker wins, or the defender wins.  If the defender
>wins, the attacker brings up the asteroid.  End of defender's story.


  Wars have been fought for many reasons, but history often tends to
show that the underlying causes of the conflicts are often economic.
The other reason can probably be summed up as "ethical" reaons.
A better way to examine most warfare in the imperium might be to
consider it as economic warfare.
  By this I mean that a war is fought to gain the economic
capabilities of the target system/planet; such capabilities as
manufacturing complexes, mining sites, more advantageous jump-route
position, a better starport etc.  At this level, the war might be
considered more of a "extremely hostile" corporate takeover, rather
than a war over (say) ideological differences.  Massive
planet-bombardment assaults wouldn't work too well, as they would
destroy what the attackers set out to acquire, or turn the people who
know how to run the equipment against the attackers.
  IMHO, this type of warfare precludes the "take off and nuke the
planet from orbit" solution because it will not be be advantageous to
do so.  Trade embargos and other loss of revenue to the attacking
planet/system might be the result of such action, as nearby systems
are apalled by the attacker's action.  Even non-ecomomic (aka
"ethical") military action might be taken against this system
in an effort to prevent such an occurence from happening again.  Even
this action can be considered economic to an extent -- other systems
don't want to be nuked.
  
  I'm not so sure as to what form an actual "economic" war would take,
but I rather think it would be preceded by vast intelligence and
sabotage operations against the target system's military and ruling
organizations, followed by a strike to remove remaining defense
installations.  This would be followed by troops and intra-atmosphere
craft to mop up remaining forces and to hold the ground.  Resistance
by the populace would tend to be determined by the differences between
the two cultures -- if the attackers operate their systems as giant
slave-chains, I would forsee massive resistance and guerilla activities
taking place.  (Hmm, I wonder if this means that the type of
war (economic/ethical) to be fought depends upon the difference in
goverment between the two groups -- the wider the difference, the more
harsh the war will be???)
  
This has gone a bit behind my original economic/ethical warfare debate,
and I'm starting to get into a gray area, so I'll stop here and
see what people think about this.

bolo
Joe Burger      University of Wisconsin-Madison     Computer Systems Lab
                arpa: bolo@cs.wisc.edu    uucp: {backbone}!uwvax!bolo	

------------------------------

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun Jul 21 21:00:17 PDT 1991
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #216: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
2628  18-Jul-91 jimv@ucrmath.ucr. Traveller Tales - 4 of 5 << Howdy folx... the
2629  18-Jul-91 wew@naucse.cse.na Jaymin's utilities << Has anyone successfully
2630  18-Jul-91 Simon Anderson    PIGS (sorry, Profits) IN SPACE.. << On Starsh
2631  19-Jul-91 Adrian Hurt       Re: More planetary defenses << From: bolo%gar
2632  19-Jul-91 "Robert S. Dean"  Re: (2630) PIGS (sorry, Profits) IN SPACE.. <
2633  19-Jul-91 Carl Fago         Re: (2629) Jaymin's utilities << > Date: Thu,
2634  19-Jul-91 "Robert S. Dean"  Starship Economics Again << Welcome to Crazy 
2635  19-Jul-91 Rob Miracle       Re: LIBDIST.ZIP << >Date: Thu, 18 Jul 91 10:3
2636  19-Jul-91 "Robert S. Dean"  How Many Ships? << Steve Higginbotham posted 
2637  19-Jul-91 "Robert S. Dean"  Hovercraft? << Terrible thing happen to peopl
2638  19-Jul-91 "Mark Power"      Re: (2626) Combat rules << > > Striker does t
2639  19-Jul-91 Cynthia Higginbot re: Starship Economics << Simon Anderson writ
2640  19-Jul-91 Cynthia Higginbot Price of Unrefined Feul << In the course of d

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2628
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 91 09:12:39 PDT
From: jimv@ucrmath.ucr.edu (jim vassilakos)
Subject: Traveller Tales - 4 of 5


   Howdy folx... the verbose Vargr is back with yet more...

                       Traveller Tales

        being an encapsulated history of future time

               Copyright 1991 Jim Vassilakos
                 (for whatever it's worth)

            F.I. 0-1481  *  The First Imperium


   0-129   Age of Reckoning
 129-137   The Reign of Blood
 137-461   Athena's Imperium
 462-467   The Little Empress
 467-483   Emperors of Doomsday
 483-1120  The Dim Time
1120-1484  Quest for Solidarity



0-129  Age of Reckoning

The mutant rebellions of the 33rd century combined with the
contempt of an educated population for the corporate state set
the stage for the formation of the First Imperium under Admiral
Draconius. However, as the great stellar estates returned to
their corporate masters during the economic recovery, tensions
resurfaced, forcing the inevitable settlement of accounts between
a once enslaved population, corporate management, and the man who
would be emperor.
   Draconius was crowned in A.D. 3516, also the year zero of the
new calendar, during a symbolic ceremony in which his young
empress-to-be, then a palace slave, was accorded the right of
king-maker as a gesture of defiance against the lesser nobility.
The gesture was not taken lightly, as during the Emperor's
marriage four years later, an attempt was made on his life,
killing instead his bride-to-be. Not knowing upon whom to
retaliate, Draconius seized the opportunity to execute each and
every member of the noble families while all were present and had
nowhere to flee. The exercise in Draconian justice made the
archaic roots of his name all the more meaningful as he
personally executed the last of his corporate rivals.
   Claiming the wealth and power of his victims via the Imperial
fleets, Draconius mercilessly slaughtered all opposition to his
absolute rule. He indiscriminately butchered entire planetary
populations in the name of his beloved empress, and by the middle
teens, the pervasive anarchy which threatened to consume the
Empire had been successfully quashed. The process of
decentralization began anew, as Draconius called to the upper
echelons of his fleets for his most loyal and capable officers.
To these individuals, he invested the titles of nobility. Large
fiefs and governorships were distributed arbitrarily, in a
fashion which best suited the Emperor alone without consideration
for the regions or peoples to be held subject.
   By the early 30's (F.I.), the new order was intact and
functioning. Perhaps to test the bureaucratic machinery,
Draconius began the issuance of royal edicts, the first calling
for an accelerated program of expansion. Production levels were
driven upward to meet the increasing demand, and the median
standard of living rose to all-time highs since the turn of the
Terran millennium making Draconius the most popular and effective
leader in historical memory. No one would foresee that within a
century, his face would become virtually unknown.


129-137  The Reign of Blood

Before the murder of his empress-to-be, Draconius fathered a pair
of paternal twins, Paulo and Athena. The brother and sister were
considered as the two separate halves of their father's double
personality, the former: sinister, evil, rash, and prone to
tantrums, the latter: quiet, reserved, careful, and thoughtful. 
   Over the years, Paulo grew impatient with his father's rule.
He desired mastery of the galaxy for himself, and in 129, he
murdered his father, seizing the crown and marrying his sister,
Athena. Rebellion broke out almost instantly as Paulo had carried
out his plan without a strong network of conspirators, yet the
ruthlessness with which he crushed the revolt dwarfed Draconius'
cruelty. This policy of terror and intimidation would
characterize the short remainder of his rule as Paulo lapsed into
a guilt-ridden paranoia which drove him finally into an obsession
to eradicate the memory of his father.
   Paulo ordered that all the images of his father be destroyed;
anywhere the name "Draconius" was written, it was erased.
Anywhere his father's memory lay, he would put its keepers to
death. Soon, even if he heard that the name "Draconius" was so
much as whispered on such a planet, all its inhabitants would be
killed. Paulo used all the powers he could bring to bear to seek
out and destroy all who would oppose him in his quest. 
   In a short time, Paulo had canceled every edict his father had
ever decreed, erased every statement, undone every deed,
destroyed every concrete memory he could find of his father.
Soon, he believed, even he would forget of Draconius. 
   Paulo's reveled in courtly games of pain and death to relieve
a moment's pressure from the enormous task he had undertaken. He
spent long hours developing new tortures of the mind which he
tested on his chosen mate, Athena, and administrated the Office
of Emperor only where it would accomplish his ultimate goal of
erasing the name of his father. 
   Despite his repeated attempts to impregnate his sister in the
earlier part of his reign, Athena never bore him any children,
nor allowed any of her ova for use in an artificial womb. This, a
testament to her own psionic prowess, confounded Paulo with the
greatest anger, and in a fit of rage he abused her to such
extremes that she fell into a sleep of eight years from which
even Paulo and all the Empire's sciences could not resurrect her.
He ordered her ova surgically removed, but during the operation
her life signs ceased until Paulo and his doctor's retreated. 
   This apparent threat of suicide kept Paulo at bay until the
final year of his reign, when losing patience with her game he
fell upon her pushing her to decide between birth and death,
nevermore allowing her to linger in that nether state she had
created through her Psi talents. For those eight years, Paulo
butchered nearly half of the Empire's population, and yet
rebellion seemed a distant hope at best. Paulo grew madder by the
day, until the hour of Athena's awakening when she bore him a
baby boy. 
   Seized with joy, he resolved to allow her the tradition of
naming the newborn child. She uttered but one word, "Draconius,"
which caused him to plunge into uncontrollable spasms of anger
and fear. Observing her opportunity, she ordered him restrained
and sedated and put him on Psi inhibitors to control his mental
powers. That day, the people rejoiced, as Athena became Empress.


137-461  Athena's Imperium

Athena's first act of office was to order Paulo exiled to the
most remote planet in the Empire where she built a prison
especially for her brother. Continually drugged, Paulo now seemed
as helpless as the infant Athena had borne him. Due to the
strange circumstances of its birth, however, the baby Draconius
was greatly feared by the remaining population, and in a gesture
of sacrifice, Athena had her only son exiled to a distant corner
of the Empire and placed on agathic inhibitors to forestall his
development into maturity. The population was placated for the
time being, and Athena began her rule, instituting several edicts
toward the amendment of the Imperial political framework.
   The first of these edicts involved the creation of a Senate of
Nobles who would enact laws with the consent of the Empress. This
proved of tremendous importance, as it ended a long era of
arbitrary legislation and provided the foundation for a firm
legal code. The second of these edicts involved the creation of
the Imperial High Court to interpret law in "cases of magnitude"
for the better consistency of justice. This proved extremely
valuable in centralizing legal authority.
   Over the three centuries of her rule, Athena continued her
father's program of expansion, though not nearly at the rate her
father had forecast. She viewed Terra's ties to the outer worlds
as already over-extended. Strangely enough, however, she
continued to enforce Paulo's will that her father not be
remembered. Over the period of a century, the effort proved
effective with respect to the common citizen, however, an
underground historical society eventually formed which preserved
the memory of Draconius.
   Athena finally consented to marriage in 449, bearing two issue
to the Archduke of Deneb during the following year. Both children
died shortly after birth, and rumors of an assassin within the
Imperial palace circulated among the populace. Athena ordered the
palace psi-shielded and sent a secret communique to Paulo's
prison ordering that her brother be executed. By means unknown,
Paulo escaped only hours before the receipt of the message, and
Draconius mysteriously disappeared a short time later.
   Fear of Paulo swept through the masses, and Athena ordered the
suppression of psionics to counter the panic; however, her
actions were too slow in coming, and rebellion ensued from the
Siri (psionic class). For a short period, a movement called the
"Draconian Front" challenged the Imperial Right of Suppression,
borrowing its name from the centuries old censure as a show of
defiance against the Empire.
   Lacking the ability to survive direct battles, the front
relied on piracy and sabotage as its primary arguments, harassing
Imperial shipping and communication routes during the early 50's.
However, it lacked the momentum of a full-scale rebellion, and
was soundly defeated at the battle of Aranruth in 456. The
Empress rejoined her husband later that year and bore a daughter
in 457 on the world of her victory. She stayed until 461,
refusing to venture into the spacelanes until she was finally
persuaded by her longing for Terra. There, the Empress and the
Archduke both perished in a surprise attack by pirates.


462-467  The Little Empress

Christine of Aranruth assumed the crown of Empress at five years
of age, almost a full year after the death of her mother and
father in an act of spacelanes piracy. Prior to her ascension,
various dukes of the Deneb clusters, all nephews and cousins of
the late husband to Athena, formed a grand alliance and waged a
siege on Terra in anticipation of the power vacuum soon to
result.
   The ransom of Christine in 462 provided the Terrans with a
golden opportunity for home rule. Thus, crowning the young
Christine as Empress gave the Terrans the legal authority to
summon their defense. Once reinforced, the Royal Navy drove back
the rebels in a gallant victory, but the winds of anarchy were so
easily quieted. As various dukes attempted to win favor and
influence over the young empress, competition to control the
Empire through Christine serving as its puppet figurehead led to
open hostilities among the nobility. This, in turn, resulted in
Christine's assassination in 467. She was ten years old.


467-483  Emperors of Doomsday

Before the young empress could even be accorded a proper funeral,
the vacuum of authority left in her wake swept in all the worms
of the muck. Over the following sixteen years, no less than
forty-seven individuals proclaimed themselves autocrat of the
Empire. Each new wave of invaders brought forth a new noble,
admiral, or crackpot opportunist to power. To capture Terra was
to rule the Empire, yet as the entirety of the 1st Imperium
swiftly collapsed into desperate anarchy, numerous duchies
announced their separate independence. Finally, during the Battle
of Doomsday, F.I. 483, 3999 by the old calendar, Terra was
destroyed.


483-1120  The Dim Time

As humaniti entered the fifth millennium, the psychic blow of
Earth's destruction carried with its passing an air of
misanthropy. Although without focus, the war continued in
sporadic outbursts for well over century.
   Finally, the economy of the Empire became so depleted and
ravaged by internal war, and the political system so fragmented
and disarranged that no true Empire could be said to exist.
Within the core worlds, a long depression ensued, in which key
industries fell apart, the caste system was destroyed, and
communication and transport between the stars came to a near
standstill. However, near the rim, colonization still continued
and new states were built from the various duchies, kingdoms,
domains, and governorships which remained.
   Humaniti slowly re-established itself during the final
centuries of the Dim Time, however, it was so politically
fragmented that the more powerful states squabbled amongst one
another for greater power and prestige, leading once more to
outbreaks of armed conflict. An interworld trade language soon
arose among the merchant class, facilitating exchange and
communication, and many national leaders found their authority
waning as merchants flocked to the least aggressive and least
trade-restrictive of their counterparts abroad. Since trade
wealth and privateering were still considered paramount to a
state's prestige and defense, there was a concerted movement on
the part of all nations to cease their hostilities and to renew
their ancient bonds.


1120-1484  Quest for Solidarity

As nation states became tempered by the economic realities of the
age, the ceaseless forces of political centralization countered
the peace ethic inherent to a re-developing interstellar
community. Ultimately, neither force could defeat the other, and
in 1120, a solution was discovered with the first of several
arranged marriages which would eventually rebind the Empire and
make it once again whole.
   Over the next three and a half centuries, the route to power
was clear. As the fragments of the first Imperium steadily
coalesced into ever more powerful states, political leaders
became increasingly concerned that their progeny should one day
rule all of human space.
   The mergence was completed with the marriage of Prince
Frederick of Omicron and Princess Anastasia of Sol in 1484,
coinciding with the sixth millennium celebrations scheduled over
the entire year. The young couple was paraded before the media,
announcing a new era of peace and prosperity as their families
continued to hold the real power behind the scenes.


           _   /|
           \`o_O'
             ( )     <---  jimv@ucrmath.ucr.edu
              U            ucsd!ucrmath!jimv (uucp)
          Aachk!
        Phft! Ftp!

Imagine Bill the Cat as an Aslan... hmm..... evil thought.


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2629
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 91 10:38:19 MST
From: wew@naucse.cse.nau.edu (Bill Wilson)
Subject: Jaymin's utilities

Has anyone successfully been able to unpack these?  I think the libdist.zip
file is corrupted on the server.


- - -- 
Let sleeping dragons lie........                    | The RoleMancer 
- - --------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Wilson (wew@naucse.cse.nau.edu | ucc2wew@nauvm | wilson@nauvax)
Northern AZ Univ  Flagstaff, AZ 86011

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2630
From: Simon Anderson <cse426@cck.coventry.ac.uk>
Subject: PIGS (sorry, Profits) IN SPACE..
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 91 21:14:37 WET DST

On Starship Economics, and the problem of how to make a profit in space :

> Steve Higginbotham writes 

> In fact, that analysis  can  be  applied  to  EVERY  merchant  ship  ever
> designed  for  MT. Virtually all J-3 ships will tend to suck up money for
> generations. MOST J-2 ships will also. Given  that  the  J -2  ships  are
> primarily  passenger  ships,   with  adequate stewards, they can come out
> slightly ahead. They don't come out ahead of  the  savings  account,  but
> that  is  someone  else's  problem.  J -1 ships will mostly make a little
> money. They even make more money than a savings  account.  Not  quite  so
> much as most Money Market accounts, but, again someone else's problem. 

This  is the problem everyone seems to be having with interstellar trade,
it's just too difficult to make a profit with the given freight costs. 

> Cynthia has just suggested that passenger/freight fees could	be  raised.
> Possibly.   In   a   normal  economy,  doing	so  would  encourage  local
> development of resources, rather than  interstellar  trade.  More  people
> would  stay  home,  and ships would be in worse shape than ever. Besides,
> there are indications that the Imperium regulates passenger/freight  fees
> to the existing levels. 

Well,  if  we  can't change the fees, maybe we should look at the problem
from a different angle :  A  highly  skilled  crew  can  make  reasonable
profits on speculative trade... 

> As to the suggestion that the starships  operate  by	spec  trade  rather
> than	 freight  consignment,	this  IS  possible.  It  is  also  possible
> (probable, in fact) that  the  smart	investor  will	buy  the  stuff  up
> WITHOUT  pouring  money into a starship, and ship it as freight. Let some
> other fool lose money by buying a ship. There will always be	idiots	who
> go  broke  doing  this, who can be milked by an alert investor. Note that
> in the case of a  subsidized	route,	the  government  is  the  idiot  in
> question,  and  the  populace  is  the  entity  being milked by the alert
> investor. 
> Therefore, most investors will NOT invest in a starship, which will  lose
> them	gobs  of  money, but rather make use of someone else's starship (so
> someone else can lose gobs of money, while  you  MAKE  gobs  of  money ).
> There  is  every indication (from the tables) that only a small ship (400
> tons or less) can make any significant amount of  money  by  spec  trade.
> Significant  in  terms of starship payments. If there was that much money
> to be made, Tukera would get an exclusive contract, and the profit  to  a
> starship owner would vanish.

The  assumptions  behind  this  is  that  there's  an unlimited supply of
starships available to transport your cargo wherever you want it  to  be,
but  given  the  costs  and  risks involved, no-one is going to be stupid
enough to run any such ship, let alone a plentiful supply of them. 

> The  upshot  is  that no ship will ever make enough money to convince the
> buyer to buy it. So either there are NO ships,  or  the  government  buys
> and  runs  them  all, to the detriment of the private sector (read: PCs).
> Or we lower ship costs. Which we did. 
> 					--- Steve & Cynthia Higginbotham

Somewhere in the Starship Operators Manual (I  think ),  there's  a  line
that  may  help  explain  this dilemma - It refers to the *reason* anyone
would be operating a starship in the first place, and says (paraphrased )
that  the  large  company ships don't make their profits on cargo, but on
transporting goods for their parent companies. 

Looked at that way, the large companies use large starships because  they
can  get  cargos  cheaper  on some other planet, their passenger space is
used for moving their executives and employees, and  they  just  use  the
'standard'  freight and passenger charges to fill up unused spaces, which
wouldn't be making them any profit empty. 

The same thing goes for small starships - Ok, so  It's  cheaper  to  have
someone  else  move the cargo on their starship, but they aren't going to
have a starship in the first place unless they're  intending  to  make  a
profit on it themselves by moving speculative cargo's.

This  means  there  can be lots of smaller free and far-traders shuttling
back and forth, only taking regular freight when they can't  find  enough
speculative  cargo.  The  free  traders  are  there because the planetary
governments want people who haven't got access to their own  starship  to
have a chance to make some money too - then they can tax them :-)

As  Steve  says,  there  are  NO ships, at least none that are willing to
carry your freight at a worthless 1000 Cr/ton :

"You want the stuff shifted, get your own ******** starship !"

Unless, of course, I've missed something in the rules about how  easy  it
is to find someone to move your freight for you (sigh). 

That's  the  way  I've  always  seen Traveller trade working, but I can't
explain the passenger spaces  found  in  the  'standard'  designs  (small
traders)  though -  it's  easier  to  make a profit by converting it into
more cargo space,  given a highly skilled  crew.  Anybody  else  got  any
ideas ?

> P.S. Does anybody remember the cheap "standard" hulls from Old  Traveller
> Book 2? And the cheap A & B jump drives? Where did those go? And why? 

Yes, I remember them - much cheaper if you  could  fit  what  you  wanted
into them. I guess they just didn't fit with the new design rules.
 
Personally,   I'm   all  in  favour  of  making  the  starships  cheaper,
especially the computers - Price/size per tech level, like  the  rest  of
it. 
				Simon Anderson

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2631
From: Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: More planetary defenses
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 91 10:06:43 BST

From: bolo%garfield.cs.wisc.edu@cs.wisc.edu (Joe Burger)
Adrian Hurt wrote:
> >The whole assumption in this discussion is that for some reason, the attacker
> >can not/does not want to destroy the defender totally in this manner.  (Why
> >was such a tactic never used during any of the Frontier Wars, by the way?)
> >Otherwise, if the attacker finds himself faced with an unbeatable defence
> >at any stage, he can just give up, take off and nuke the planet from orbit.
> 
>   Wars have been fought for many reasons, but history often tends to
> show that the underlying causes of the conflicts are often economic.
> The other reason can probably be summed up as "ethical" reaons.
> A better way to examine most warfare in the imperium might be to
> consider it as economic warfare.

If we're considering action within the Imperium, all bets are off.  There's
a thing called the Imperial Rules of War to consider.  These rules aren't
written down anywhere, because officially the Imperium doesn't approve of
any war within its borders.  Unofficially it tolerates very limited warfare
as being a quick release of tension and resolution of conflict, as opposed
to long, drawn out economic warfare - which I would define as sanctions and
other interruptions of interstellar trade, and which are even worse for the
Imperium as interstellar trade is its lifeblood.

So, the Imperium will tolerate limited warfare.  That's how mercenaries make
their living.  It doesn't tolerate excessive off-world interference - in
other words, if the invader is capable of taking on the whole planet, it
will probably have to take on the Imperial forces shortly afterwards.

I was under the impression that the invasions being discussed would either be
part of the Frontier Wars, or take place well away from the Imperium (and
probably any other large interstellar organisation).

- - -- 
 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cs
 UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian     |  ARPA:   adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2632
Date:     Fri, 19 Jul 91 8:50:05 EDT
From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Re:  (2630) PIGS (sorry, Profits) IN SPACE..

> Date: Thu, 18 Jul 91 21:14:37 WET DST
> From: Simon Anderson <cse426@cck.coventry.ac.uk>
> Subject: (2630) PIGS (sorry, Profits) IN SPACE..
> 
> That's  the  way  I've  always  seen Traveller trade working, but I can't
> explain the passenger spaces  found  in  the  'standard'  designs  (small
> traders)  though -  it's  easier  to  make a profit by converting it into
> more cargo space,  given a highly skilled  crew.  Anybody  else  got  any
> ideas ?
>

For merchants operating on a government subsidy, I've always assumed that there
is a government regulation requiring a certain amount of cargo space, since
free flow of people = free flow of ideas = a good thing (at least in theory).

For smaller ships, well, they are they because they have always been there since
the beginning of the game.  They do have the effect of offering a better return
on investment than cargo at 1000cr/ton, and thus might help keep you in 'air
money', and they have the pleasant effect (for the GM) of keeping the players
worried about hijackings and offering other adventure hooks.  Still, you're
quite right...a trader with the right skills would be better off without them,
and I have designed several small 'cargo only' merchants.

Rob Dean
 


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2633
Subject: Re: (2629) Jaymin's utilities
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 91 7:54:04 PDT
From: Carl Fago <carlf@agora.rain.COM>

> Date: Thu, 18 Jul 91 10:38:19 MST
> From: wew@naucse.cse.nau.edu (Bill Wilson)
> Subject: (2629) Jaymin's utilities
> 
> Has anyone successfully been able to unpack these?  I think the libdist.zip
> file is corrupted on the server.

I finally have it figured out.  Note that the server says it is "compressed
and uuencoded".  Well it is.  Rename libdist.zip (after cating and decoding
the parts) to libdist.zip.Z and uncompress libdist.zip.Z.  Then unzip
libdist.zip resulting from this and you'll find the files you are looking
for.  Threw me for a loop too.  The server apparently acts on libdist.zip
in a script and doesn't recognize or use the new filename after it is
compressed.

Hope this helps.


- - -- 
+---------------------------------------------+------------------------------+
| *-=Carl=-*  INTERNET - carlf@agora.rain.com | Time is nature's way to keep |
|             DELPHI - WULFGAR                | everything from happening    |
| Carl Fago   Portland, OR                    | all at once.    -anon.       |
+---------------------------------------------+------------------------------+


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2634
Date:     Fri, 19 Jul 91 14:56:12 EDT
From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Starship Economics Again

Welcome to Crazy Eddie's Used Starship Lot!  The Biggest Bargains in the
Imperium?  This little baby may be a hundred and fifty years old, but she
was owned by two little old lady prospectors from Glisten who never took
her above Jump-1!  

Hmmm...well, maybe not. (-8.  Still, one way of cutting down ship prices 
for players without worrying about the economy at large is to sell them
a used ship (maybe a a _very_ used ship).  The only trouble with that is
that we don't really know how much of a price break we ought to get, nor
what the likely increases in operating expenses (due to increased main-
tenance requirements) or in systems breakdowns might be.  (Unless there
is some article in an old Challenge/TD/JTAS that I have forgotten...)

Does anybody have a system of any sort already worked out for this?

Rob Dean


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2635
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1991 15:16 EDT
From: Rob Miracle <RWMIRA01%ULKYVX.BITNET@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: LIBDIST.ZIP

>Date: Thu, 18 Jul 91 10:38:19 MST
>From: wew@naucse.cse.nau.edu (Bill Wilson)
>Subject: (2629) Jaymin's utilities
>
>Has anyone successfully been able to unpack these?  I think the libdist.zip
>file is corrupted on the server.

Yes, at least the previous version.  The first problem is that their mail
server sends UUENCODE files with spaces which most mailers truncate when they
are at the end of the line.  I had to append spaces to the end (used an editor
and put a M in the last column).  Then I could uudecode it.  At that point,
PKUNZIP didn't want to have anything to do with it.  However, there is a
Windows Unzip that did process it.  I have a version that is working.

Rob

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2636
Date:     Fri, 19 Jul 91 15:13:47 EDT
From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  How Many Ships?

Steve Higginbotham posted a rebuttal of the planetary invasion concept based
on the Striker budgetary levels.  Well, let's face it--Striker does not
correspond well with our only other 'official' data point, which is the
Fifth Frontier War game and the battalion counts derived from it which are
published in the Rebeliion Sourcebook.  We've seen the same problem with
regard to numbers of merchant ships in existence.

What can I say?  I'm completely puzzled, and I'm open to any suggestions
on either of these matters that anyone would like to make.  Metlay?

Rob Dean


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2637
Date:     Fri, 19 Jul 91 15:37:33 EDT
From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Hovercraft?

Terrible thing happen to people who read the rules...I just today noticed that
an air cushion vehicle is supposed to be rated exactly like a grav vehicle
at NOE...so that to get 100kph of speed you need enough thrust for 400kph.
Does this sound reasonable to anyone?  Hovercraft are quite out of my line,
although I append below the two specimens I have designed.  If you cut their
speeds to a quarter of what they are now, they will be hopelessly slow for
their cost.  Is this out of line?

Rob





Sprinter Cargo ACV TL8

     The Sprinter is designed to carry cargo or vehicles over calm water at 
high speeds.  It is comparatively expensive, and sees little actual use 
save as a high speed landing craft in various Maritime Forces.

  CraftID: Sprinter Cargo ACV, TL8, Cr7,130,225
     Hull: 14/34, Disp=15, Config=4USL, Armor=4B, Unloaded=97.7t,
           Loaded=175.7t
    Power: 2/4, MHD=24MW, Dur=20hrs
     Loco: 1/2, AirCushion=220t thrust, MaxSpeed=300kph, Cruise=225kph,
           MaxAccel=0.25G
     Comm: Radio=Continental(5000km)
  Sensors: Radar=VDist(50km), ActObjScan=Diff, ActObjPin=Diff
      Off: Hardpoints=1
      Def: -
  Control: CompMod0*2, ElecLink*160
    Accom: Crew=4 (Driver, Asst Driver, Commander, Comm Officer), 
           Passengers=10, Seats=Roomy*14, Env=Basic env
    Other: Fuel=14kl, Cargo=64kl (64tons max), ObjSize=Avg,
           EmLevel=Moderate

Akian Peregrine Hovertank TL9

     The Peregrine equips certain Akian units, primarily second line recon-
naissance.  Its speed is superior to tracked vehicles over smooth ground, and 
superior to grav vehicles at low altitude, at a cost which is competitive 
with the latter.

  CraftID: Akian Peregrine Hovertank, TL9, Cr1,255,700
     Hull: 3/6, Disp=2, Config=4USL+turret, Armor=20D, Unloaded=21.6t,
           Loaded=26.5t
    Power: 1/2, MHD=3.2MW, Dur=20hrs
     Loco: 1/2, Air Cushion, Thrust=30t, Top=156kph, Cruise=117kph
     Comm: Radio=Continental(5000), LaserComm=VDist(50)
  Sensors: 2*Headlights, AllWeatherRadar=VDist(50), AdvImageEnh, 
           ActObjScan=Diff, ActObjPin=Diff
      Off: Hardpoints=1, Weapon Stabilized to 100kph

                        Pen/         Max      Auto   Dngr
             Ammo  Rds  Attn   Dmg   Range    Tgts   Spc    Sig   ROF
12cm HV Gun  KEAP  50    34     12  Dist(22)   -      -      M     7
             HEAT  -     42     12  Dist(22)   -      -      M     7
              HE   -     20     16  Dist(22)   -      35     M     7
  2*HMG       -    600   6/3     3 VLong(1.5)  3      -      H     80

      Def: 6*Smoke, 6*Antilaser Aerosol
  Control: Comp0*1, CompLink*30
    Accom: Crew=4 (Commander, Driver, Gunner, Electronics), Seats=Cramped*4, 
           Env=basic env, basic ls
    Other: Fuel=2.8kl, Cargo=0, ObjSize=Small, EmLevel=Moderate


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2638
From: "Mark Power"  <MARK@gsb2.his.uab.edu>
Date:     19 Jul 91 11:00:15 CDT
Subject:  Re: (2626) Combat rules

>
> Striker does two things.  You get a bonus on the to-hit roll, and for every
> 2 by which the roll exceeds the required number, you get an extra hit.  For
> example, to hit with an ACR at effective range requires a roll of 8+.  If you
> fire on full automatic, you get a +2.  I roll the dice and get a 9; with the
> bonus, that's 11.  This is 3 above the required number of 8, so I score two
> hits.
>

Adrian is, of course, correct.  I've obviously spent too much time re-
reading the AHL rules and not enough time with Stiker.

> > 3) Allow multiple hits on the target, rolling seperately for each one.
>
> As I say, Striker allows multiple hits without separate rolls.  What I would
> then do is roll again for any shots that missed, to see if they hit the next
> nearest character in the field of fire.
>
Absolutely.  I don't have Striker here at work, but in AHL, after rolling at
the target, any attacks that miss the target attack everyone along the line
of sight, until it hits someone, or misses everyone.

> Striker also allows you to specify a group as a target, rather than a single
> individual.  In this case, you roll once to hit the group; any hits are
> divided as evenly as possible between the members of the group.  I don't
> recall any bonus for aiming for a cluster of people rather than a single
> person, unless you allow the one for target size - in which case a large,
> spread out group makes an easier target than the same number of people in
> a tight cluster.
>

I had forgotten this as well.  How well does it work in practice?  Some
Striker rules work better for full-scale battles than for the sort of small-
scale gun play most commonly seen in Traveller games.

Mark

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2639
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 91 15:30:02 CDT
From: Cynthia Higginbotham <cynthia@CS.MsState.Edu>
Subject: re: Starship Economics


Simon Anderson writes:

> The same thing goes for small starships - Ok, so  It's  cheaper  to  have
> someone  else  move the cargo on their starship, but they aren't going to
> have a starship in the first place unless they're  intending  to  make  a
> profit on it themselves by moving speculative cargo's.

> This  means  there  can be lots of smaller free and far-traders shuttling
> back and forth, only taking regular freight when they can't  find  enough
> speculative  cargo.  The  free  traders  are  there because the planetary
> governments want people who haven't got access to their own  starship  to
> have a chance to make some money too - then they can tax them :-)

No, that is the niche filled by the Subsidized Merchant (the ones the
Government pays for and runs).  They provide the grunt service for all those
investors without a starship of their own.

The free/far trader guys are the ones who go to the bank to ask for a loan:

Capt Helsson (free trader captain wannabe):  "Sir, I would like to borrow
MCr30 to buy a starship."

Mr. Carcharias (vice president in charge of the Loan Dept):  "Well, that's
fine.  We like to see young people go into business for themselves.  Can you
show me your business plan, please?"

Capt Helsson:  "Well, sir, I was planning on gambling on my inherent genius to
come out ahead in this operation."

Mr Carcharias:  "Hmmm...  Why don't we talk about this AFTER you can show me a
detailed plan to make enough money to pay us back.  We don't normally
subsidize trips to Vegas to play roulette."

<  later  >

Mr Carcharias:  "well, sir, it is good to see you again!  What can I do for
you today?"

< capt Helsson hands Mr Carcharias business plan.  Mr Carcharias studies it
while Helsson talks. >

Capt Helsson:  "Sir, you asked me for a business plan.  I have one here.  I
have information that the new source of pharmaceuticals in District 268 will
produce a large, steady demand for starship transportation to markets.  As you
can see, my plan is built around the idea of purchasing the drugs on site, and
transporting them to markets to exchange them for goods the producers need
<blah, blah, blah............>

< Mr Carcharias sets down plans and smiles broadly >

Mr Carcharias:  " well, that is good news.  This is just the kind of plan we
like to see before we release our money into a long term loan.  And, if your
estimates are correct, you should be able to pay the loan back within 15
years.  That really is well thought out, sir.  we shall, of course, have to
process the paperwork, which should take no more than a few weeks, but I can
assure you that your loan will be approved as written."

Capt Helsson: < rising >  "thank you, sir.  I really appreciate that.  I'll be
back to sign the paperwork as soon as it is completed."

Mr Carcharias : < also rising > "Sir, it is a pleasure.  My secretary will
call you within two weeks to finalize the agreements."

< Helsson leaves >

Mr Carcharias:  < to secretary > "Doris, can you ring up Thor Tukera for me,
please?"

< phone rings, Carcharias answers.>

Mr Carcharias:  "Thor, I just heard a reliable rumor that there is a lot of
money to be had in a new route down in District 268.  If you could release a
few long-liners to duty there, we could make a bundle.  And, as a bonus, there
should be several nearly new merchant ships, all quite well designed,
available there in the next few months.  Quite reasonable prices, too, I
should think...  Of course I'll send the details to your office, this very
afternoon.  Good talking to you, Thor.  BTW, what is my dividend on my
personal Tukera stock expected to be this quarter?  That high?  EXCELLENT. 
Good day, Thor."

Mr Carcharias:  < to Doris >  "Please expedite that young man's application,
Doris.  We wouldn't want to disappoint him.  Or Tukera."


Notes:

	1) If a good spec trade route already exists, a major corporation will
have it tied up solidly.

	2) Ownership of the major mega-corporations is so interlocked (source:
MegaTraveller) is so interlocked, they might as well be considered to have
identical interests.  This includes Hortalez et Cie, THE major banking
interest and source of starship loans in the Imperium, as well as most lesser
banks.

	3) Purely local banks are unlikely to finance a purchase involving
removal of the borrower and the collateral some months travel beyond their
reach, which is why Hortalez is the main source of starship loans.

	4) Assuming your business plan is based on speculative trade, it will
mostly likely be a newly profitable route.  If the route continues to be
profitable, in the long run Tukera or a similar large shipping firm will
undoubtably move in and take it over.  

	5) Given: you have to explain your route to the lending agency.  Given:
the lending agency is a part-owner or is owned by Tukera or other major
shipping firm, it is not unreasonable that the lending agency might inform its
parent of any potentially profitable leads that it acquires.  A secret shared
is no longer a secret.

	6) It is also not unreasonable that the lending agency will make a loan
in spite of the fact that it knows that no profit will be made and the
starship will be repossessed.  This is because they can then sell the starship
to Tukera or whoever at a breakeven price for the bank, and at a considerable
profit for Tukera.  The only loser is the poor schmuck who got the loan.

	7) This happens in the real world.  In the U.S., we have Anti-Trust Laws
and insider trading regulations, etc to prevent this sort of thing.  However,
indications are that the Imperium does not interfere in business to that
extent, especially since the imperial family and the high nobility are
significant stockholders in said megacorporations.  Expect such scenarios to
be even more common in Margaret's Imperium.

	Again, the upshot is that, given the *present* pricing scheme, in the
Imperium, most commercial starships will be owned by the government in the
form of subsidized merchants, or government-protected in the form of
megacorporate ships.  Is this the picture of the Imperium that you want?


					--- Steve & Cynthia

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2640
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 91 15:30:43 CDT
From: Cynthia Higginbotham <cynthia@CS.MsState.Edu>
Subject: Price of Unrefined Feul

    In the course of discussing wilderness refueling, Rob Dean brought 
up the question of "Why does the starport charge to fill the fuel tank
from a hose (water = unrefined)?"  (Paraphrased).

Steve and I discussed the question and decided to share our thoughts with
you.  
	1) A free trader uses 165,000 gallons of water (tank of unrefined fuel)
at a cost of Cr 4,644.  We haven't checked local water prices lately, but
certainly running that much water through your meter would cost you a fair
fraction of that amount (more in California), ignoring taxes and connection
fees, overhead for the high-capacity water system the starport uses, and, if
it isn't water, but ammonia, that you're using for unrefined, it's cheap at
the price.

	2) Most worlds with any kind of government at all insist that you
land/dock at what's called a "Port of Entry" so local Customs & Immigration
can make sure you're not bringing in anything they disapprove of and pay
duties and tariffs on the stuff they do approve of.  In which case, the
starport has a captive clientele and will charge all the market can bear. 
This, by the way, explains why you don't just land on the beach and drop a
hose in the ocean; if you do, lots of impatient, armed people from the local
equivalent of the DEA, the Coast Guard, Customs & Immigration are going to
want to know just WHY you thought it was a good idea to bypass the legal Port
of Entry....  And, if the world's law levels are high enough, the local Air
Defense Command might use your ship for target practice.  (Remember that
Soviet version ADC that got into trouble for letting that light plane land in
Red Square?  And DIDN'T get into trouble (internally, ignoring world opinion)
for shooting down KAL 007?)

	3) On worlds with a lot of traffic (any Hi Pop world), what passes for
Traffic Control might get a little upset if you just start improvising your
own landing paths (to stray bodies of water).   So will the previously
mentioned Air Defense Command.  I don't know how it works outside the US, but
if you violate FAA regulations (i.e., ignore landing directives from Traffic
Control) they fine you heavily, and maybe revoke your pilot's license.  I
already mentioned what ADC's have been known to do.


							-- Cynthia & Steve

P.S.  If you thought to stop in the ocean and refuel on the way OUT, the
authorities might want to know who you were meeting and what you are carrying
that you had to bypass the normal Export controls....

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
*****************

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TML Bundles come from the archives of the Traveller Mailing List,
maintained by James Perkins, traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed Jul 24 21:00:10 PDT 1991
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #217: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
2641  19-Jul-91 jimv@ucrmath.ucr. Traveller Tales - 5 of 5 << Before pummeling 
2642  19-Jul-91 KELLOGG@ducvax.au Staffe Grav Bike << Staffe class Grav Bike TL
2643  19-Jul-91 Shannon D. Appel  MegaTraveller Journal #2 & DGP's new AI Game 
2644  19-Jul-91 KELLOGG@ducvax.au Grav bike << Hi folks, I sent off a grav bike
2645  19-Jul-91 arizona!naucse!we Re: (2629) Jaymin's utilities << I finally fi
2646  19-Jul-91 SULAIMAN@ecs.umas Freight/Passenger rules << Its the monster of
2647  20-Jul-91 MacGyver          Re: (2643) MegaTraveller Journal #2 & DGP's n
2648  20-Jul-91 Mike.Metlay@ORGAN On planetary invasions << I'm a historian, no
2649  21-Jul-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha Re: (2621) Rock&Roll << > From: "Mark Power" 
2650  21-Jul-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha Rock&Roll addition.... << Note that all those
2651  21-Jul-91 teets@frith.egr.m RE:(2621) Autofire << Although many TMLer's d
2652  19-Jul-91 Marc Alexandrovic YACOPI (Yet Another Comment On Planetary Inva
2653  21-Jul-91 KELLOGG@ducvax.au Man, you gotta be kidding... << Hi, Here's on
2654  21-Jul-91 KELLOGG@ducvax.au Design Clarification Post Script << In the de
2655  21-Jul-91 KELLOGG@ducvax.au Another Robot Design << Hello, Here's an idea
2656  21-Jul-91 KELLOGG@ducvax.au Unrefined Fuel Availability << Steve and Cynt
2657  21-Jul-91 George William He Naval and Ground Force strengths << Striker s

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2641
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 91 14:19:02 PDT
From: jimv@ucrmath.ucr.edu (jim vassilakos)
Subject: Traveller Tales - 5 of 5


Before pummeling you with the last installment of my alternate
history for Traveller, I'd better give fair warning that some
of this isn't too easy to follow without a map. Thus, here
is where you can get a few maps along with the LaTeXed/PS
version of Traveller Tales.

The Place: watnxt2.ucr.edu  (192.31.146.189)
       or: watnxt1.ucr.edu  (192.31.146.188)
       or: watnxt3.ucr.edu  (192.31.146.125)

The directory: pub/ucrgg

The files you may or may not be interested in nabbing:

- - -rw-r--r--  1 ftp      sys        84103 Jul 19 21:54 thist.ps.Z
- - -rw-r--r--  1 ftp      sys        32283 Jul 19 21:54 thist.tex.Z
- - -rw-r--r--  1 ftp      sys        11133 Jul 19 21:48 tmap1.ps.Z
- - -rw-r--r--  1 ftp      sys         9454 Jul 19 21:48 tmap2.ps.Z
- - -rw-r--r--  1 ftp      sys        23612 Jul 19 21:49 tyber.xwd.Z

tyber.xwd was put together via Mark Cook's Subsector Viewer for
X Windows. The two tmap files were put together via idraw and
may be finicky with some printers. I got them to churn out on a
NeXT, but that's proly not saying a great deal.

As a few of you might have guessed, the history and maps fall
right in with the Harrison Chapters which are being net-published
in Quanta and The Guildsman. If any of you get the compunction to
write stories within this setting, feel absolutely free. That's
what the net is all about. Now on with the show.


                       Traveller Tales

        being an encapsulated history of future time

               Copyright 1991 Jim Vassilakos
                 (for whatever it's worth)

            S.I. 0-656  *  The Second Imperium


     0-359  Challenges to the Young
   359-491  Good King Richard
   492-499  The Civil War
   500-656  The Modern Era



0-359  Challenges to the Young

Although the marriage of the Solian and Omicronian heirs brought
about the existence of the 2nd Imperium, the splendid coronation
of year zero lacked one vital ingredient of Empireship, that
being a central ruler. The prenuptial agreement between Anastasia
and Frederick, which served effectively as articles of interim
confederation, left the actual reigns of authority to their
grandparents until a child should be born, later centralizing
authority and stabilizing the Empire. This, however, was
unlikely, for although the young couple met under fair
circumstances, family differences quickly tore them apart.
   Remaining married for political purposes, Frederick returned
to Omicron shortly after the "ordeal" in order to oversee
industrial growth and reaffirm his family's power in the region.
Mangled during the Dim Time, Omicron's primary agenda focused on
centrality of control with limited growth. Sol, on the other
hand, pursued a policy of exploration and conquest, spreading its
dominion across the stars and claiming more territory than it
could effectively administrate. Therefore, Omicron maximized a
policy of focused industrialization, while Sol spent its
resources on traditional priorities such as colonization and
expansion; and while a compact Omicron was easily controllable,
Sol's colonies, primarily in the Perseus Arm, became increasingly
rebellious. 
   Anastasia set up two strong rival governorships in order to
handle the situation locally in the interests of Capitol. Her
idea was that neither would rebel because of the other's
existence, yet both would be very capable of quenching internal
rebellion because they would both be close to their problems. The
outcome proved disastrous for the untested Empire. Neither of the
two governorships recognized any rivalry. They held the mutual
interest of independence against a common enemy, and through
intensive cooperation they realized their interests with the 341
Declaration of Independence of Persei and Cassiopeiae, beginning
fleet maneuvers to prove the sincerity of their intentions.
   Angered that her hand-picked governors had turned traitorous,
Anastasia began recalling naval forces from the far reaches of
the Empire back to Sol to be overhauled, refitted for battle, and
sent off to punish the traitors and reincorporate the
governorships. However, the entire process of preparing for a
major war took far too long to implement, and as soon as the
local guard was pulled off other worlds, they too began to talk
of independence. A new Draconian Front slowly emerged, calling
for the cessation of Imperial domination of outworld states.
Although the name was no longer suppressed, it did serve as a
reminder of the Reign of Blood, eliciting support from otherwise
neutral parties. 
   Anastasia was forced to withdrawal her plans of attack and
shift the focus of the war campaign toward the solidification of
her rule. The Draconian Front was eventually stamped out, but
only with the realization that the Solian half of the Empire had
drastically over-extended itself. The Omicron half of the Empire,
on the other hand, was compact and stable, and in the interest of
preserving failing relations, Frederick ventured to Sol to make a
rare visit with his wife in 354. The visit, scheduled to last one
quarter of a standard year, ended up lasting three, and a prince
was born by the name of Richard. Frederick left to settle affairs
back at Omicron, but two years later he returned to stay. With
this decision, the seat of Omicron's government had been moved to
Sol, and with this act the two kingdoms became fused into one
Empire more-so than ever before.


359-491  Good King Richard

Throughout the remaining years of their reign, the happy couple
did very little in the area of their administrative
responsibilities. Leaving the reigns of government to Richard,
their son, they spent the following years taking adventurous
incursions into the outer sectors. In 383, their convoy was
raided by pirates, and both were killed in the resulting battle. 
   Richard assumed the throne as soon as word reached Capitol,
and continued the work he had already made himself accustomed to.
His reign can be characterized by the overall leniency with which
he ruled and by his great charisma which won victories in a more
peaceful fashion than those of his predecessors. He was probably
the most well-loved Emperor ever; certainly, he has been the most
missed. 
   Richard turned over even greater Imperial power to the
Archdukes, further decentralizing the Empire and making its
administration more practical and convenient. He formed a Senate
of advisors which took actual power in the detailed planning of
central goals, and he refocused the energies of government to
rebuild the agricultural worlds' production capacities especially
along the Betelgeuse and Spica fringe which had still not
completely recovered since the Dim Time. He reformed the
relationship between big business and the state, allowing greater
corporate independence from Imperial strictures on noble
ownership and anti-monopolization, but less freedom on
stakeholder reparation issues and matters concerning
technological development.
  Richard conducted the first complete census of the 2nd Imperium
and published the data in the Encyclopedia Galactica which he
created as a permanent storehouse for all knowledge. He opened
diplomatic relations with Persei and Cassiopeiae which flourished
into a trade partnership and later a cooperative alliance.
Perhaps most importantly, he allowed more states on the Imperial
periphery to attain practical independence, and he granted
independence to the Archduchies of Caprissa, Tigris, and Epsilon
Aurigae, emphasizing the need for peaceful cooperation between
states, rather than warlike competition.
   Richard was also somewhat of a scholar and philosopher of the
other social and political systems which had suffered to exist
along the Imperial periphery during his reign, and in 490, he
became so enthralled with democracy that he outlined a plan which
would have over the course of the next two-dozen standard years
gradually formed the Empire into a democratic republic while
simultaneously granting independence to the Archduchies of
Scorpio, Herculese, Athens, and Nu Cephei. His "Grand Plan"
outlined seven free Duchies and seven Democracies of the new
Imperial Republic (Sol, Omicron, Betelgeuse, Spica, Rigel, Deneb,
and York). In effect, he was offering to step down from the
throne for what he believed would be the long-term good of his
people. However, his plan was never put into effect, as he died
the following year in a starlanes accident leaving the Empire to
his oldest son, Stephan.

492-499  The Civil War

Stephan, saw things very differently from his father and often
argued openly with Richard on matters of state and the
suppression of inevitable rebellions. He vowed that if he should
come to power he would militarily strengthen the Empire rather
than weakly submitting to colonial demands. When he finally
became Emperor, he attempted to do just that; however, the moment
was already lost and the power of his office, greatly diminished
during Richard's reign, proved too weak to take control of big
industry and wrestle back the periphery for direct Imperial rule.
   During his first year, Stephan was always at odds with the now
powerful Senate. He dared not dissolve the body, or he would risk
rebellion from every front, but he did take the privilege of
retiring senators and replacing them with his own friends, a
practice very much set against the tradition instated by Richard.
   By the middle of 492, the seven "Free Duchies" sent identical
statements to Stephan, demanding a continuation of Richard's
Grand Plan. Stephan flatly denounced the plan as an old man's
folly and began preparing his military to reincorporate the lost
territories including Cassiopeiae and Persei. Nu Cephei invaded
Deneb and Epsilon Aurigae invaded Spica later that year.
Caprissa, Tigris, and Scorpio quickly organized their defenses as
Athens invaded York with all her forces during the early quarter
of 493.
   Sol organized a defensive front along the Scorpio border where
her forces stood for the remainder of the war facing the enemy
but not attacking while Stephan called for Omicron to send
reinforcements to help defeat the rebels. While not participating
herself, Omicron allowed Betelgeuse to send minor reinforcements
to aid the effort in Spica; but the assistance was far too little
to be of substantial benefit to the Imperial cause, and Spica
eventually fell into rebel hands. 
   Rigel invaded rebel Caprissa in the late of 493 as Deneb
halted the Nu Cephei invasion, and by the end of 494 Deneb was
chasing the remaining Nu Cepheian rebel forces all the way back
to Tigris. In 495, Herculese having just finished quenching
internal uprisings, entered the war on the side of the Empire and
invaded Athens from her back door. The Athenian forces were
immediately recalled to a defensive front as York and Herculese
pounded them from both sides. 
   In 496, reinforcements from York relieved the Deneb forces and
carried on the war in Nu Cephei and Tigris. Deneb moved its
attention to the defeated Archduchy of Spica, still in rebel
hands. Another year of fighting only produced a stalemate; but in
497, Deneb's remaining border forces attacked Epsilon Aurigae
directly. The shock produced a rebel withdrawal from
three-quarters of Spica. 
   By the middle of 498, Athens had fallen, but Persei,
Cassiopeiae, and the Outworld Coalition (at Herculese) were
preparing to enter on the side of the rebels. Both sides were
weary of war, and Omicron still hung on the sidelines like a
vulture waiting for the best moment to enter and snatch its prey.
Afraid of losing the upper hand, Stephan called for a peace
conference to get out while he was ahead. 
   In 499 the conference met and signed a peace resolution.
Scorpio, Epsilon Aurgigae, Caprissa, Tigris, and Nu Cephei
suffered a rearrangement in their borders which was to an
Imperial advantage in return for Stephan's recognition. The
empire suffered the severance of large regions of space from the
Archduchies of Spica, Rigel, and Athens for the purpose of
creating independent states and buffer zones in return for the
rebel states' denunciation of Richard's plan toward
democratization. Despite the fact that war could have been waged
by both sides for several more years, the conference settled on
this compromise, as victory for either side seemed too uncertain.


500-656  The Modern Era

After 500, Stephan began an industrial reconstruction,
particularly in Rigel, Deneb, and York which were all hard-hit by
the war. Appointing his son-in-law as the new Archduke of Athens,
he executed the old family in 504 and paid a special visit to the
Archduke Constantine of Herculese a year later, personally
thanking him for not turning traitor as did the other six of the
"seven free Archdukes" and for playing so critical a role in the
defeat of Athens. He then visited Omicron in 509, supposedly to
admonish the Archduke there for restraining the requested aid. To
the surprise of the citizenry, he had the Archduke executed but
allowed the family to live with its eldest son instated as the
new ruler.
   The trade agreement with Cassiopeiae and Persei, which was
discontinued at the start of the war, was reordered and extended
to the border states. In 510 he had Omicron funnel aid to help in
military reconstruction as he began reinforcing the borders along
Sol, Deneb, Rigel, and York to protect the coreworlds from rebel
invasion.
   In recent years, Stephan has gained a strong hold over the
Imperial Senate's sub-bodies and has moved toward a large
military build-up in the Imperial Core primarily around Sol,
Rigel, Deneb and York heavily taxing or seizing control of the
megacorporations in order to finance his projects. Anti-Imperial
sentiments have risen especially high along the Imperial
periphery as both sides prepare for resumed armed conflict.


           _   /|
           \`o_O'
             ( )     <---  jimv@ucrmath.ucr.edu
              U            ucsd!ucrmath!jimv (uucp)
          Aachk!
        Phft! Ftp!


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2642
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1991 16:38 CDT
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: Staffe Grav Bike

Staffe class Grav Bike TL 14

	The Staffe grav bike is used by the Imperial Army and Marines
for light scouting and courier duty.  Easier to requiisition than a
speeder, and faster than an air/raft.  It is a common sight at
garrisons, and noted for it's reliability.  At TL14 it fits along
side the Trepida grav tank as a companion.
	It is open topped but streamlined in such a way that the driver
and passenger are shielded from the elements and hostile fire.  The
fareing in front allows much higher speed than an ordinary unstreamlined
grav bike.

CraftID:	Staffe Grav Bike, TL14, Cr209,940
Hull:		(1/2) Disp=.185, Config=4SL, Armor=10G, Load=3.7,
		Unload=3.2
Power:		(1/2) Fusion=1.5MW, Dur=10/30
Loco:		(1/2) StdGrav=7t, Top=1000, Cruise=750, NOE=180
		Agility=1, MaxAccel=.9G
Comm:		Radio=FarOrb, Maser=Cont
Sensors:	P-EMS=VDist, A-EMS=VDist, Headlight*1, EMMask
		ActObjScn=Dif, ActObjPin=Dif, PasEnScn=Form

Off:		HPt=1, (Fixed mount installed for rifle type wpn
		FGMP, Laser, Gauss, External Power required)
Def:		DefDM=+3, Smoke*1, Prismatic Aerosol*2

Control:	Comp=0*2, HUD*1
Accom:		Seat=open*2, Inertial comp
Other:		Fuel=.9Kl, Cgo=.2Kl, ObjSize=Sm, EMLevel=Faint

Note:	The bike is not normally armed, but a troopers weapon may be
clamped to the front of the bike.  The driver must wear any power pack
for the weapon.  It is a clumsy arrangement, but suitable for an
unarmed craft.  If two fully armed troopers are carried, the cargo
capacity is reduced to 87Kg if performance is not to suffer.

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2643
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 91 15:06:17 -0700
From: Shannon D. Appel <appel@soda.berkeley.edu>
Subject: MegaTraveller Journal #2 & DGP's new AI Game

Well, MTJ#2 finally made it to Berkeley.  I almost choked when I saw the price
tag ($5.95) on a 56 page magazine.  What are they planning to increase to
when they go to 104 pages?

However, my biggest question is about DGP's new game, AI: Roleplaying Adventure
in a Technofantastic Age.  It's set 1500 years in the future in a "decayed
human civilization" held together by AI machines.  Anyone know anything more
about this project?  I don't recall seeing it mentioned here before.

Shannon

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2644
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1991 17:04 CDT
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: Grav bike

Hi folks,

I sent off a grav bike design, 
(I assume it will follow below)
	Basically, it was inspired by watching old Indianna Jones Flicks.
The scences with the german army chasing him all over the place on motor
cycles.  It occured to me that there is no equivalent to the german bikes
in trav.  So enjoy.

Mr. Scott

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2645
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 91 14:16:34 MST
From: arizona!naucse!wew@uunet.UU.NET (Bill Wilson)
Subject: Re: (2629) Jaymin's utilities

I finally figured it out too.  What a mess.  The filename should be changed
so that a Z is at the end.  Duh...


- - -- 
Let sleeping dragons lie........                    | The RoleMancer 
- - --------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Wilson (wew@naucse.cse.nau.edu | ucc2wew@nauvm | wilson@nauvax)
Northern AZ Univ  Flagstaff, AZ 86011

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2646
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1991 16:32 -0500
From: SULAIMAN@ecs.umass.edu
Subject: Freight/Passenger rules

Its the monster of freight/passengers rules again. First of all the
rules were written for old Traveller and definitely should be
redone. My interpretation of the rules is that it cost 1000Cr/t for
freight, Cr10000 per High passenger, Cr 8000 per Middle pass etc
only for a Jump-1 in any direction. For longer distances I use a
sliding scale of (0.5*Jump distance) * J-1 + J-1 cost. So a J-2
freight costs twice as much as J-1 , while J-3 costs 2.5 times J-1,
while J-4 costs 3 times J-1 and so on. The TAS high passage
compensates you for only the first Cr10,000 of your journey.
Consider it a frequent traveller support service instead of a
freebie. It makes more sense to me that way.  

Again consider the charge rates a guideline and players could
charge within +/-50% and could be given a +/- modifier in the
amount of passengers/freight they generate. It makes trade a little
more profitable and sensible. I also use the passengers rules
differently. I assume that a middle passenger will have to share
his stateroom with another middle passenger. It makes more sense in
that how would you undo a High passage room to a Mid Passage?
Besides a Stateroom is capable of holding two people so it makes
sense in that a High Pass is travelling 1st Class while Mid Pass is
travelling a little cramped in Business Class. Low is well...
Economy. 

Looked at this way a J-4 ship gets to a location 4 parsecs away
atleast 4 times as faster as a J-1 ship and costs 3/4 of what a J-1
ship would charge. Thus there is some economic sense to upgrading
jump drives from the shippers point of view.

Ameer


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2647
From: MacGyver <macgyver@cis.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Re: (2643) MegaTraveller Journal #2 & DGP's new AI Game
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 91 0:13:23 EDT

> Well, MTJ#2 finally made it to Berkeley.  I almost choked when I saw the price
> tag ($5.95) on a 56 page magazine.  What are they planning to increase to
> when they go to 104 pages?

I think they've stopped taking new subscription now. They've decided
to sell the journals as sourcebook type thing, it will be published
bi-annually. each cost something like $10.

> However, my biggest question is about DGP's new game, AI: Roleplaying Adventure
> in a Technofantastic Age.  It's set 1500 years in the future in a "decayed
> human civilization" held together by AI machines.  Anyone know anything more
> about this project?  I don't recall seeing it mentioned here before.

AI isn't mentioned much here, because this is after all, a Traveller list. :){

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2648
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 91 12:13:46 EDT
From: Mike.Metlay@ORGAN.MUSIC.CS.CMU.EDU
Subject: On planetary invasions

I'm a historian, not really a rules guru. As far as the makeup of naval
and ground forces are concerned, Fifth Frontier War and the Spinward
Marches Campaign sourcebook are the only references I know of, and they're
quite vague below the "see the pretty outline" level. I'll see what I
can look up.

metlay

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2649
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se (Bertil Jonell)
Subject: Re: (2621) Rock&Roll
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 91 11:23:40 MET DST

> From: "Mark Power"  <MARK@gsb2.his.uab.edu>
> Subject: (2621)  
> 
> I've been working on my combat system, and I need to make a decision about
> automatic weapons.  There are several ways to handle auto fire weapons.
> 
> 1) Increase the chance to hit.

> 2) Increase the damage.

> 3) Allow multiple hits on the target, rolling seperately for each one.

> 4) Determine to hit normally, and then determine a percentage of shots that
>      hit the target.

> Does anyone have any suggestions or strong feelings on this?

  My *current* (there has been many:) favourite is the way Twilight2000 handles
it: Roll a d6 for every shot fired on full auto, every 6 is a hit on the target
for that burst, halv the remaining dice and roll, every new 6 is a hit on a
secondary target, roll the remaining non-6 dice from this last roll, every
6 in this roll is a hit on someone *moving*. Range is treaded as decreasing
the number of rounds.
  (Twilight allows for multiple bursts in the same phase, but at penalties.)

  All in all, except for the way it handles the to hit rolls for single shot
fire and the unearthly amounts of damage everyone can absorb (The average Joe
can take *a number* of average 9mmP rounds in the head before dying...) it
would be really nice...

> Mark

- - -bertil-
- - -- 
"Some people almost never think. They just reshuffle their prejudices."

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2650
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se (Bertil Jonell)
Subject: Rock&Roll addition....
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 91 11:26:26 MET DST

  Note that all those d6'es are rolled as a lump, not separately one after the
other:) 

- - -bertil-
- - -- 
"Some people almost never think. They just reshuffle their prejudices."

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2651
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 91 11:44:18 -0400
From: teets@frith.egr.msu.edu
Subject: RE:(2621) Autofire


	Although many TMLer's do seem to have military experience for those that
don't there seems to be some misunderstanding of autofire.  When a weapon is 
fired on auto many people believe that only a percentage of the bullets will hit
the target.  This is true but probably only a percentage of the FIRST few bullets will hit.  I will give the basis for this below:

	When a weapon is put on auto and fired at a target the weapon will tend 
to "junp" (for lack of a better word).  Once it has started to jump in one 
direction it will tend to continue to go in this direction as long as it 
continues to fire.  This is why most rifles made for armed forces around the
world now have a "burst" selection instead of "auto".  Case in point the M16A2
has a 3-round burst setting.  This is because after the first 3 shots the weapon
is usually so far off its intended target as to make the following shots "useless".  Although in the future gyrostabalization will probably compensate somewhat
for this, it will still continue to be a problem in projectile weapons.  So I
will show you the rules I give for this particular situation.

	First: Determine the number of rounds fired on auto-fire during the
combat round.  For those that wish to truly represent realism, if a player 
wishes to stop before all the ammo is used up add some randomness.  For any
amount of shots over 10 if the player wishes to stop have them roll 2d6.  One
to determine whether they stopped before or after they wanted to, and one to
determine the number of shots high or low.

	Next:  For very shot over the first the to-hit roll is at -1 cumulative.
for stabalized weapons, or -2 cumulative for non stabalized.  This really 
represents how hard it is to keep an auto-firing weapon on target (known from
3 years of experience).  Continue to roll until there is NO chance for a hit.
Occasionally they won't hit until the first or second time but this can easily
be explained as poor aim at first.  Example:  Bob fires at Jim but shoots a bit
to the right, however the weapon travels left and hit him on the 2nd and 3rd 
shot.
	Now we get into those nasty missed shots.  These can be discarded in an
open field but not a crowded area.  Although some players might think of this as
simply gore and boredom added to the scenario, in campaigns, players who are too
messy with their "hit" jobs will get a lot more heat.  Not only will the players
be in trouble for the murder (or maybe assault) or the target but also of the
people standing around them.  Killing a known pirate will probably get the 
players a little sympathy but not if they also accidently killed 7 by-standers
and wounded 12 others.  Oops, sorry about that, back to the rules.  Roll for the
missed shots against another target normally.  If it hits go back to the auto
fire rules but after a miss don't roll again.  After all it is unlikey the 
player is trying to bring his aim back on them.  As for missed shots, when an
area is pretty empty simply roll once any more than that and roll more times up
to 5 or 6 rolls for a really crowded area. 

	I added these rules simply because a lot of times players think it is
easier than it is to shoot at a crowd and only hit one person than it is.  
Firing into a crowd, even to hit only one target, will 90% of the time will 
bring multiple deaths.  This works the same with grenades.  Although these rules
may seem tiresome they tend to make the players much more careful about wielding
weapons with such zeal.  And make enemies who do use them as such seem much more
villainous, making them much more important to hunt down.  Thank you.
Matt Teets

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2652
From: Marc Alexandrovich Volovic <mav@cs.huji.ac.il>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 91 04:46:07 PDT
Subject: YACOPI (Yet Another Comment On Planetary Invasions)

 
Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk> writes:
>Marc Alexandrovich Volovic <mav@cs.huji.ac.il> writes:
>>   The very fact that spending is limited would favour an attacker or
>> defender who balances the quantity of medium priced combat vehicles with
>> a quality of high priced combat vehicles (be these vehicles TL9 grav
>> tanks or TL15 super dreadnoughts). There may be 5 Atlantis battleships
>> (Robert Dean's Prize Baby :-) in a star system, but a mixed force can
>> outmaneuver it and perform a planetary landing.
>
>Perhaps, but there had better be something that can take out those 5 Atlantis
>class battleships, or at least keep all 5 occupied for a long time, or else
>at least one battleship will come and make the invasion very costly.
 
  Granted, partially. However, it may be possible to take out the Atlantis
sized ships with ramming drones. Does it matter how much damage the Meson-T
can do on it - anything short of "Ship Vaporized" will still propel a drone
at a high speed into the ship. Black globes MAY be the answer, but the
arguments about these were held and held and held. Say about 40 unmanned
20 displacement ton drones would do the trick?
 
>>   On another hand - a planetary assault may take place WITH THE CONSENT
>> of the defender - if an attacker finds himself faced with an apparently
>> impenetrable defence belt, he may just give up the idea of an assault
>> and accelerate a few medium sized asteroids at the target planet. Thus a
>> situation similar to a battle of Maldon may arise - the defender
>> granting battlespace to the attacker.
>
>The whole assumption in this discussion is that for some reason, the attacker
>can not/does not want to destroy the defender totally in this manner.  (Why
>was such a tactic never used during any of the Frontier Wars, by the way?)
>Otherwise, if the attacker finds himself faced with an unbeatable defence
>at any stage, he can just give up, take off and nuke the planet from orbit.
 
  I assume the following - Steve Kellog suggested a possible way to
obliterate (or, at the very least, heavily damage) any planet by a single
Type S scout. This is a tactic employable by any starfaring nation. The
only possibility is to have it mutually proscribed, the same going for
planetary bombardment to destruction. Otherwise - better not speak, eh?
 
 
>>   If the above comments hold true the deciding stage in an invasion
>> would be how much of the attacking force can the defender destroy before
>> an engagement on the world surface, but without making him desperate
>> enough or hurt enough to bombard and jump outsystem. This may or may not
>> be the fine art of generalship in the future.
>
>Fine art?  Either the attacker wins, or the defender wins.  If the defender
>wins, the attacker brings up the asteroid.  End of defender's story.
 
  See comment above. Otherwise, granted.
 
>>   The future battlefield itself depends very much on the concept of
>> anti-gravity. If it is invented (and within Traveller it is assumed so),
>> field artillery and infantry will rapidly decline in importance. Indeed,
>> infantry is losing importance even now, long before even air-cushion
>> combat vehicles have appeared.
>
>Why?  There are reasons why the infantry has to get out of the vehicles
>and fight on foot.  The only way anti-gravity will put an end to fighting
>on foot is if every soldier gets a grav-belt, and anyone with Striker will
>know what that will do to the unit's maintenance costs!
 
  With the widespread usage of rapid-firing laser guns (say, the Traveller
equivalent of the 10Mw pulse laser) infantry - mounted, dismounted or with
grav-belts - shall become very vulnerable. A phalanx arrangement of ten or
so vehicles, carrying three to five such guns will probably deny the area to
anything but other vehicles.
 
>>   Infantry shall continue to be used in city assaults, police and
>> security work, shipboard actions and heavily broken areas combat.
>
>The first and last of those come under the heading of "Getting stuck in
>and capturing the real estate".  Assuming you actually want control of the
>planet, you're going to have to take control of the cities, which means
>city assaults.  If the cities have been bombarded, it means broken areas
>combat.
 
  Granted, see above.
 
>> Artillery shall probably lose all almost all use except for the most
>> rapid-firing cannon in light anti-vehicle combat.
>
>Certainly it is true that at higher tech levels, you can build vehicles which
>are invulnerable to any practical conventional CPR or mass-driver round.
>So long as the infantry stay in their heavily armoured APC's, or in their
>bunkers, they are safe.  (And so long as someone doesn't let off some nuclear
>rounds.)  Artillery will still be a good way of keeping their heads down, and
>weakening their morale.
 
  Area denial is granted, space denial is not. If there is precious little
infantry, artillery shall almost disappear.
 
 
Marc A. Volovic
 

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2653
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1991 16:00 CDT
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: Man, you gotta be kidding...

Hi,

Here's one I did just for fun.  Just to see what you can do with the system.

Niagara Class Capsule TL5

	The Niagara class multistage rocket is designed to have surface to
Low orbit capability,  With the 200 ton booster stage it can reach low
planetary orbit.  The service module acts as either a retro rocket to
bring the capsule back down for re-entry via parachute or to kick the
capsule up to stable planetary orbit.

CraftID:	Space Capsule TL5 MCr 11.17273
Hull:		(9/21) Disp=9, Config=2AF, Armor=40A, Load=322.2,
		Unload=282.8
Power:		(1/2) Batteries=.817MW, Dur(life Supp Only)=51hrs
		Dur(Full Draw)=1hr
Loco:		Parachute
Comm:		Radio=Planetary
Sensors:	Headlight*1
Off/Def:	HPt=1,  DefDM=+2
Control:	Computer=Model0, Basic Mech=36
Accom:		Crew=2(Pilot, Copilot) Seats=Roomy*2, BasicEnv, BasicLS
		ExtendLS
Other:		Cargo=28.6Kl, ObjSize=Avg, EMLevel=Mod

CraftID:	Service Booster TL5 Cr 16,470
Hull:		(9/23) Disp=10, Config=3SL, Armor=1A, Load=337.8,
		Unload=2.1
Loco:		(9/18) Solid Rocket Booster=675t, MaxAccel=2G, Dur=1min
Other:		Cargo=Space Capsule, ObjSize=Avg, EMLevel=None

CraftID:	Main Booster TL5 Cr 463,500
Hull:		(180/450) Disp=200, Config=3SL, Armor=3A, Load=782
Loco:		(180/360) SRB=4655t, MaxAccel=7G, Dur=2.9
Other:		Cargo=Capsule+Service Booster, ObjSize=Avg, EMLevel=None



CraftID:	Niagara Multistage Rocket TL5 MCr 11.6527
Hull:		(198/493) TotalDisp=219, Config=2AF(Staged) Armor=(varies
		see above) Load=782
Power:		(1/2) Batteries=.817MW Dur=(see above)
Loco:		(180/360) SRB=4655t, Dur=2.9min, MaxAccel=7G
		(9/23) SRB=675, Dur=1min, MaxAccel=2G
Comm:		Radio=Planetary
Sensors:	Headlight*1
Off/Def:	Hpt=1, DefDM=+1
Control:	Computer=0, BasicMech*36
Accom:		Crew=2(Pilot, Copilot) Seat=Room*2, BasicEnv, BasicLS,
		ExtendLS
Other:		Cargo=38.6, ObjSize=Avg, EMlevel=Faint

	The Niagara is so named because of its questionable survivability.
The craft is mainly used by the nobels of TL5 planets seeking thrills,
such as going over the falls in a barrel...

Mr. Scott

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2654
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1991 16:09 CDT
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: Design Clarification Post Script

In the design appended below subtract 1 from MaxAccel while operating in
a gravitational field.  The listed values are for microgravity.  Thus, the
Service Booster would have an acceleration of 2G's while in orbit, but the
main booster would have only 6G's on take off.

Sorry, I sent it and then remembered the clarification.

Scott Kellogg

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2655
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1991 17:25 CDT
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: Another Robot Design

Hello,

Here's an idea I tried just to see if it could be done.  A Tech 8 robot.
All the elements and programs are manufacturable at TL8, but I ran into
trouble when completeing the design.  The maximum robot intelligence at
tech eight is negative 3 according to the design evaluation tables.

So this robot is assumed to have it's brain architecture designed at
tech 12, but built using local materials at Tech Level 8.  If you don't
like that idea, the unit is equipped with a slave unit allowing external
control.  The ECM would make certain that it remains under control
provided that the attacker is not too sophisticated.


Picadore type Warbot

RobotID:	Warbot, TL8, Cr 25,076
Hull:		(1/2) Config=4USL, Disp=.037, Armor=14B, Load=702Kg
Power:		(1/2) FuelCell=70kw, Dur=18/54
Loco:		(1/2) Tracks, Road=132kph, OffRoad=40kph
Comm:		Radio=VDist
Sensors:	Visual*4, (ActIR*1, LI*1) Audio*2, Olfactory, VideoCam*1

Off:		Light Assault Gun
Def:		Smoke*1

Control:	Brain CPU=13, Storage=19, Low Data, Limited Bas Command,
		Light Assault Gun-1, Close Combat-1, Ground Infantry
		Combat-1, Tactics-1, ECM
Other:		Fuel=150liter, Mag=150rnds, HeavyRobotArm*2,
		VLightRobotArm*2, ObjSize=Sm, EMLevel=Avg,
		UPP=S9x12x (S=125)

	The Picadore warbot is more properly classified as a remotely piloted
vehicle.  As such it is used by artillary spotters.  Though many would doubt
its intelligence and not trust its target verification programming, it has
been sucessfully used along side troops as fire support.  In such cases, the
friendly forces must wear an infrared transponder.  The active IR detector
in the Picadore interrogates human targets for a correct code before opening
fire.  Friendly vehicles must be programmed into the unit or they will be
fired upon.
	Because of its low intelligence, it is rarely used in such cases and
is more often used as a raider to cross the lines and cause havoc.  As such
it accels.  It is as well armored as a man in battledress, much stronger,
much cheaper, and Much more expendable.
	It has been known to be used by Special Weapons arms in police forces.
In such cases its actions are overseen by a trained operator.  Though it has
no demolition skills of it's own, it is often used in bomb disposal, again
overseen by a trained operator.
	Designed at tech level twelve for manufacture at tech eight, The
Picadore was mass produced in the Spinward Marches by several small
manufacturing firms during the Fifth Frontier War.  They saw limited use in
that conflict.  At the conclusion of the war, the existing models were sold
to low tech planets as artillary spotters.  Though manufactured at tech eight,
few tech eight planets have existing maintainace facilties for the repair of
robots and they fell into disuse and were finally abandoned by many such
planets.
	Then the black market got a hold of them.  Mercenary Companies are
known to have Picadores in use, and there are several cases of armed robbery
committed by Picadores under criminal control.  While they are not outright
illegal, their use is heavily restricted and liscenced.

Mr. Scott

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2656
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1991 18:01 CDT
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: Unrefined Fuel Availability


Steve and Cynthia have pointed out just how testy customs and airtraffic
control can be about ocean dipping.  Well, I don't have my books in
front of me, but I seem to remember that most planets will allow ocean
dipping.

	Admittedly there may be cases of what I call 'UltraLaw', where
the starport either has been bribed by the fuel refining companies, or
the port is a company and needs to show a profit in its fuel selling
account books.  Or maybe the government is just excessive.
	In these cases ocean dipping will not be allowed, but I would
say, that if you call the tower and request a vector for ocean dipping,
they will allow access.  At higher law levels they may require the ship
be searched first in case of smuggling, but remember that the vector is
to be assigned by the tower, not the ship, they may be allowed to dip
fuel from a location just off the bow of a coast guard cutter.
	The US is not a case of 'UltraLaw' yet.  You can still fly without
a flight plan, land anywhere you want to, refuel from anywhere you want to.
Admittedly, there are Coast Guard planes out there watching for 'special
cargo' DC-3 Dakotas headed north from Columbia, but once they land in the
US they can pretty much do as they please.  Thus, I would say, that once
your cargo has gone through coustoms, chances are you can land anywhere
you want to if you clear it with the Tower.  (I seem to remember a planet
in the Trav Adventure that required special forms to do so, but the planet
was a Huge Beaurocracy ie 'UltraLaw').
	There is also the case of desert or near desert planets.  I believe
the old Spinward Marches Supplement said Dipping was not allowed on planets
with a hydrographic percentage of 30% or less.  (It might be 40%)

	I think that the Soviet Frontal Aviation and the attendant Soviet
Beaurocracy is a good example of 'UltraLaw'.  (I'm not sure, but the last
I heard that young German pilot who landed in Red Square is going to be
there for life...)

Scott S. Kellogg

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2657
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 91 23:26:09 -0700
From: George William Herbert <gwh@ocf.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject: Naval and Ground Force strengths


	Striker sort of started out explaining how strong various military 
organizations were.  The _Rebellion Sourcebook_ does have a list of pop. vs.
tech level listing how many battalions of infantry are probably present.
	Combining information from Rebellion Sourcebook ('_RS_') and from
Fighting Ships of the Shattered Imperium, we can get some good estimates of
fleet sizes.  Quoting from para 1, pp. 27 of Rebellion Sourcebook;
	"FLEETS
	Each sector of the Imperium theoretically has a group of
fleets numbering about 1000 ships.  This number includes combat 
vessels such as cruisers, carriers, battlesships, and some
escorts; it does not include auxilliaries, support ships, and scouts.
	...
	NUMBERED FLEETS: The Imperium has about 320 numbered
fleets (Approxomately one for each subsector within the empirt).
A numbered fleet, depending on its mission, may have
between two and 10 squadrons amounting to between 50 and 200 ships. ...

	Note the listing of combatant squadrons only.  The 'some escorts'
descriptor in the first paragraph above indicates that they mean the 5-20kton
escorts from FSSI, not minor sub-kiloton escorts.  Presumably, if you include 
the smaller ones, they number about as many as larger vessels do.
	So, now we need to determine what makes up a 'Squadron'... looking at
FSSI, we find a BatRon (Battleship Squadron) normally contains 4 Battleships,
or a battle tender and four riders.  A CruRon has about five cruisers and about
as many escorts.  A carrier-type CruRon (fighters) usually just has the
carrier itself.  These are not hard and fast rules, but generally accurate.
	There is also mention that they tend to collect like-typed ships into
squadrons.  Having done a bit of organizational work, it looks to me as if most
squadrons will have been more mixed than that suggests.  I can bet that they
are organized along lines of similar jump capability and similar maneuver
capability.  (It makes little sense to put a J-3 BB-12 with a bunch of J-4
battleships, but a J-6 BS-15 might make sense.  Simmilarly, if most of your
major warships are M-2, a M-1 one will slow the rest down, but a M-4 one will
add a bit of flexibility.)

- - -george william herbert
gwh@ocf.berkeley.edu

(next week I'll post a fleet I've been developing in detail for some work
I'm sending GDW.)



------------------------------

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To: dan@engrg.uwo.ca (Dan Corrin), bfwong@ocf.berkeley.edu (Raven Blackburn),
        mcknight@f104.n170.z1.fidonet.org (Chuck McKnight),
        fantasci!traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (Joseph "Jo" E Poplawski),
        jamesp@metolius.wr.tek.com (James T. Perkins)
Subject: TML Bundle #218: Msgs 2658-2668
Reply-To: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Precedence: bulk
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 91 21:00:24 PDT
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@metolius.wr.tek.com>
Status: R


TML Bundles come from the archives of the Traveller Mailing List,
maintained by James Perkins, traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed Jul 24 21:00:21 PDT 1991
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #218: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
2658  22-Jul-91 Adrian Hurt       Striker vs. Fifth Frontier War << "Robert S. 
2659  22-Jul-91 Adrian Hurt       Re: YACOPI (Yet Another Comment On Planetary 
2660  22-Jul-91 Hugh Schoenemann  Plastic ships - flights of fancy ? << Greetin
2661  22-Jul-91 jimv@ucrmath.ucr. tmap1.ps fixed << Greetings and Salivations f
2662  22-Jul-91 SULAIMAN@ecs.umas Large Warship design problems << I wasn't doi
2663  22-Jul-91 vather@pnet03.cts newgroup question << I haven't seen this post
2664  23-Jul-91 "Alvin M. Chan"   re:re: autofire etc (mayhem,death,etc) << >Da
2665  22-Jul-91 George William He Large Warships and Plastic Ships << plastic s
2666  23-Jul-91 Jo Jaquinta       World Builder's Handbook Software << Last I h
2667  23-Jul-91 "Robert S. Dean"  Re: (2662) Large Warship design problems << I
2668  23-Jul-91 "Robert S. Dean"  Re: (2660) Plastic ships - flights of fancy ?

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2658
From: Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk>
Subject: Striker vs. Fifth Frontier War
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 91 9:10:58 BST

"Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil> writes:
> Steve Higginbotham posted a rebuttal of the planetary invasion concept based
> on the Striker budgetary levels.  Well, let's face it--Striker does not
> correspond well with our only other 'official' data point, which is the
> Fifth Frontier War game and the battalion counts derived from it which are
> published in the Rebeliion Sourcebook.

The Fifth Frontier War game also doesn't correspond too well with the
"official" history, in that it doesn't take long enough.  In "reality",
the war lasted about 4 years (1107-1111), and ended in a negotiated peace
with little shifting of borders from their pre-war positions.  In the
game (at least, whenever I play it), a big reinforcement fleet appears on
turn 6 (Rimward reinforcements, or something like that - a whole lot of
colonial-grade squadrons and troop units).  Shortly after that, the Sword
Worlds gets flattened.  The Imperials get their reinforcements in small
lots which build up somewhere safe until they reach a suitable size, then
go looking for something big and blue to clobber.  The war tends not to last
long after turn 52; if the Zhodani haven't won a complete victory by then,
they get completely defeated instead.

As for battalion sizes; perhaps the Imperium subsidises some worlds to
create larger defence forces, or penalises some worlds for having too
large forces.  I don't know what the discrepancies are, but a creative
referee should be able to figure plenty of excuses.

- - -- 
 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cs
 UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian     |  ARPA:   adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2659
From: Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: YACOPI (Yet Another Comment On Planetary Invasions)
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 91 9:20:29 BST

Marc Alexandrovich Volovic <mav@cs.huji.ac.il> writes:
> Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk> writes:
> >Marc Alexandrovich Volovic <mav@cs.huji.ac.il> writes:
> >>					 There may be 5 Atlantis battleships
> >> (Robert Dean's Prize Baby :-) in a star system, but a mixed force can
> >> outmaneuver it and perform a planetary landing.
> >
> >Perhaps, but there had better be something that can take out those 5 Atlantis
> >class battleships, or at least keep all 5 occupied for a long time, or else
> >at least one battleship will come and make the invasion very costly.
>  
>   Granted, partially. However, it may be possible to take out the Atlantis
> sized ships with ramming drones. Does it matter how much damage the Meson-T
> can do on it - anything short of "Ship Vaporized" will still propel a drone
> at a high speed into the ship.

Can the ramming drones be destroyed or disabled with lasers or missiles?
If not, they count as "something that can take out those 5 Atlantis class
battleships".  The point I was making was, if even one of the battleships
can make its way to the invasion area, the invasion is in big trouble.  I
was not commenting on how you stop them, only that you need to do so, as
opposed to just going round them (outmanoeuvre and perform a planetary
landing).

> >The whole assumption in this discussion is that for some reason, the attacker
> >can not/does not want to destroy the defender totally in this manner.  (Why
> >was such a tactic never used during any of the Frontier Wars, by the way?)
> >Otherwise, if the attacker finds himself faced with an unbeatable defence
> >at any stage, he can just give up, take off and nuke the planet from orbit.
>  
>   I assume the following - Steve Kellog suggested a possible way to
> obliterate (or, at the very least, heavily damage) any planet by a single
> Type S scout. This is a tactic employable by any starfaring nation. The
> only possibility is to have it mutually proscribed, the same going for
> planetary bombardment to destruction. Otherwise - better not speak, eh?

In other words, for some reason, the attacker can not/does not want to destroy
the defender totally.

> >Why?  There are reasons why the infantry has to get out of the vehicles
> >and fight on foot.  The only way anti-gravity will put an end to fighting
> >on foot is if every soldier gets a grav-belt, and anyone with Striker will
> >know what that will do to the unit's maintenance costs!
>  
>   With the widespread usage of rapid-firing laser guns (say, the Traveller
> equivalent of the 10Mw pulse laser) infantry - mounted, dismounted or with
> grav-belts - shall become very vulnerable. A phalanx arrangement of ten or
> so vehicles, carrying three to five such guns will probably deny the area to
> anything but other vehicles.

The same can be said nowadays about machine-guns.  They're why the infantry
tends to ride around in APC's.  Even so, there is still infantry around.

- - -- 
 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cs
 UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian     |  ARPA:   adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2660
From: Hugh Schoenemann <hugh@pyra.co.uk>
Subject: Plastic ships - flights of fancy ?
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 91 13:27:40 GMT-0:00


Greetings everyone,

This may seem a rather stupid question to some, so please indulge
my ignorance or the possibility it's been discussed here before.

I was thinking the other day about the possibility of using plas-
tics in the construction of starships, that is the external hull.
Given the weight ratios between "standard" metal  structures  and
their  plastic  counterparts, would it not be more fuel-efficient
to use plastics and thus benefit from  any  weight  savings  that
might accrue ?

I then thought to myself, "Well, what would happen upon free-fall
re-entry  ?  Fried  plastic  blob  hits deck at G ?" Perhaps not.
Wouldn't it be possible to shield the ship using good ol' ceramic
tiles a la Space Shuttle ?

Then the problem of aging occurred to me.  Plastics  age  through
photo-chemical  reactions  caused  by  the interaction of natural
phenomena (sun, wind, rain, local soil etc.) with  the  plastic's
own  atomic  structure  (plastics-  or  organic chemists - please
shoot me down in flames if this is a misconception on  my  part).
This  can  be  useful,  for example when designing bio-degradable
plastics,  but would surely be an undesirable trait in  plastics-
for-space-vehicles  purposes.  Given that UV light (which clearly
lends a hand in the aging process) is shielded  somewhat  by  our
atmosphere (unless you live in Antarctica, that is), wouldn't the
situation be that much worse in vacuum where  no  such  shielding
takes place ? I suppose solving this problem might help solve the
next ...

I remember hearing years back that all plastics are, to a greater
or  lesser extent, porous.  Is this true ? How could this be com-
pensated for or, preferably, eliminated when considering  plastic
vehicles ?

Note that I didn't consider strength as a factor in my reasoning.
Why  not  ? Well, I reckon that a ship-asteroid collision at some
of the speeds frequently discussed on the TML will turn both ship
and  contents  into  so  much blackberry jelly no matter what the
ship's made of. Comments ?

If these thoughts aren't pure fancy, it gives rise to the follow-
ing possible scenario :-

Punter enters local branch of "Spaceships R Us". Asks  about  the
possibility of purchasing a brand new 1,000 ton trader. Slick and
somewhat greasy salesman says, "Certainly, sir. You need the  La-
zlar  Lyricon  (sp ?) model. Only 17 zillion credits or $ 1.98 in
Revell kit form".

Looking forward to some replies.

All the best, everyone.

Hugh.
- - -----

P.S. Apologies to Douglas Adams and the  Hitchhiker's  Guide  for
misusing the Lazlar Lyricon bit. H.

| Hugh P. Schoenemann     | "Hey sonny - haven't you  got an  | *  * ***   *** |
| Pyramid Technology Ltd. |  FGMP  15 to play with or what ?" | *  * *  * **   |
| ..ukc!pyrltd!hugh       |                                   | **** ***    ** |
| Tel : +44 252 373035    |  ***** FIZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ ! *****  | *  * *    ***  |

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2661
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 91 16:57:08 PDT
From: jimv@ucrmath.ucr.edu (jim vassilakos)
Subject: tmap1.ps fixed


Greetings and Salivations from the vargr historian. For those of you who
found a bit of trouble printing the first tmap, it should now be okay
for a greater number of postscript printers.

As before, you can find it in the pub/ucrgg directory of the following nodes:

          watnxt2.ucr.edu  (192.31.146.189)
          watnxt1.ucr.edu  (192.31.146.188)
          watnxt3.ucr.edu  (192.31.146.125)

It has also been donated to sunbane (129.100.100.12), but how soon
it replaces the old version is still up to Dan Corrin, the site admin.

Now it's time for Bill the Aslan to say a few words:

           _   /|
           \`o_O'
             ( )     <---  jimv@ucrmath.ucr.edu
              U            ucsd!ucrmath!jimv (uucp)
          Aachk!
        Phft! Ftp!


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2662
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1991 19:38 -0500
From: SULAIMAN@ecs.umass.edu
Subject: Large Warship design problems

I wasn't doing much this weekend so I decided to check out some of
the warship designs that have been submitted on this list. After
Steve Higginbotham's "Sikkinthar" and "Aenoegrr" class ships, I
felt rather humbled and obligated to support his premise. So I
decided to check on whether his assertion had any validity. Steve's
assertion being that 8 of his Sikkinthar class (7ktons) could
destroy a Atlantis class (1 million tons). 

What I found was rather amusing. Actually it would take only 5 to
do the job. This got me thinking on whether any of the other
capital ship (20ktons + ) were any good. I found that in general
they were not. It seems that most of these warships were built with
the "bigger is better" mentality with no regard to their actual
effectiveness. Before I go into further details let me point out a
few things that I noted:

1. Most capital ships were heavily overarmored, overpriced and very
vulnerable to meson weapons. Most designs would be LESS vulnerable
to ALL weapons if they were LESS armored. 

2. I do not know if anyone has actually done any large scale combat
with these starships( or any other starships tonnage > 20 kt) in
large numbers. I have a feeling that the designs would be a lot
different if they had done even rudimentary tests. If someone has,
it would be of great benefits to the "architects" to know its
results. 

3. There were hardly any capital ship designs with PA spinals, yet
there were lots of ships with armor > 60. Similarly there was a lot
of use of the TL 15 50 ton factor 9 missile bay but NOONE used the
more effective 100 t factor A missile bay. 

4. It seemed to me that the rider/tender vs battleship controversy
is now decided firmly in favor of the rider/tender. A 100,000 ton
tender brings far more spinal mounts to bear than a 200,000t
battleship. And when both sides have armor 60+ than the battle is
decided by who is nimbler and with more spinal weapons. 

5. Steve Higginbotham's designs assume a standard 24/72 cruise
endurance with a 1/3 peak power endurance. For those who may have
played large scale capital ships battles, a question. How realistic
is this figure? It seems very suitable since all my battles were
over in 2-5 rounds (40-100 min). 

6. I think the Imperial requirement of warship specs should be
amended as follows. 

Imperial warships should be J-4 with a cruise endurance of 21/63+.
Cruise implying constant 2-G accel (1/3rd power) with all noncombat
systems powered and some offensive and defensive systems powered. 

All warships should be capable of 6-G, Agility - 6 and all
weapons/screens powered at peak powerplant output. The endurance
for this peak performance being atleast 1/3 days. 
I will also recommend that all Imperial warships > 100,000t be
battle tenders. The reasoning for this will become clear soon. 

7. As an interesting aside, the requirement for armor becomes lower
as ship size increases. A 100,000t ship has less need of armor than
a 20,000 t ship. 

All the following assume standard MT vehicle construction rules:
All die rolls are assume craft at long range for combat purposes.

Atlantis class (1,000,000 t battleship) 
vs.
Sikkinthar class SDB(7,000 t)

Atlantis Price MCr903,000          Sikkinthar Price MCr7100
TL15, DefDM=+7,Armor=82G           TL15, DefDM=+15, Armor = 40G
Weapon:        
Spinal-T Meson Gun                 Spinal N-Meson gun
To Hit: 10+                        Auto
To Pen Meson Screen: 4+            7+
To Pen Conf: 3+                    Auto
Shots Needed to Get a Hit: 6.7     1.7

Beam Lasers Factor=9
To Hit: 11+                        None
To Pen: Auto
Shots Needed to Get a Hit: 12

Missiles Factor=9
To Hit: 8+                         Auto
To Pen Nuc Damp : 10+              10+
To Pen Beam/sand: Auto             5+
To Pen Repulsor: Auto              Impossible

Particle Accel Factor = 9
To Hit: 10+                        None

After one round of combat Atlantis was destroyed by 5 SDB. 2 SDB
were damaged none was destroyed. The damage was from the spinals
which are guaranteed a hit on the Atlantis. 

Note Factor-N spinal is by no means the largest spinal that can be
put on a starship or a SDB of 7-50ktons. Note also the price
differnce betwwen the two craft.

What follows is an off the cuff analysis of other large ships
designs that have been put on the list. All assume that the firing
ship has the best computer for that TL. Shown Spinals are the
SMALLEST ones that have a chance to get through. Also shown are the
larger calibers available at that tech level:

1. Atlantis class battleship. Def DM = +7
2. Osprey class battleship. Def DM = +8
3. Nergal class battleship. Def DM = +8
4. Atlantic class cruiser. Def DM = +10
5. Revenge class SDB/Rider. Def DM = +9
TL-13 Meson - L
To Hit: 3+/4+/4+/6+/4+
To Pen Screen: 10+/10+/10+/9+/10+
To Pen Conf: Auto/5+/7+/Auto/4+
Larger Caliber: P

TL-14 Meson - G
To Hit: Auto/3+/3+/5+/3+
To Pen Screen: 11+/11+/11+/10+/11+
To Pen Conf: Auto/7+/7+/Auto/6+
Larger Caliber: H,M,Q,R

TL-15 Meson - J
To Hit: Auto/Auto/Auto/4+/Aut
To Pen Screen: 9+/9+/9+/8+/9+
To Pen Conf: Auto/6+/6+/Auto/5+
Larger Caliber: N,R,T

All above craft had factor-9 meson screens. As can be seen all are
basically guaranteed hit at long range. The fact that it is hard
for a "run-of-the-mill" spinal mount to penetrate the best possible
screen is small consolation. Their best hope seems to be increased
agility but with the bulk of factor 60+ armor, it is practically
impossible for any of the above to have any agility over 1 and not
even that in most cases.

Which led me to my next question as to why have armour in the first
place? The primary reason seems to be the fear of the spinal PAs
with their "Penetrate-All" attack. Strangely though I have seen
just one ship with a spinal PA. The other reason seems to be
nuclear missiles. The T-PAWS cannot deliver any automatic criticals
to a vessel over 50ktons. So that will rule out protection against
crits as an excuse. To avoid the "Interior Explosion" and
"Critical" hit results on the Surface Explosion or Radiation Damage
chart you only need armor factor 52(-4 to damage die roll). A case
could be made to make a vessel invulnerable to secondary weapons.
However it is a pretty weak case as secondary weapons rarely do
enough damage to seriously effect the firepower of any capital
ship. Actually it seems that the bigger ships have little to fear
from PAs and more to fear from their size and lack of agility.

Even the largest Spinals can be carried on smaller cruiser size
craft and that would render little need for larger vessels. The
only really good reasoning that I can come up for a 100,000t +
craft is as a battle tender or carrier(much like today..). With
factor-9 meson screen, agility 6 and dispersed configuration it
stands a good chance against meson weapons, and if armored to 52 it
can survive PAs too; atleast until help arrives or it can jump.

Ameer


^Z

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2663
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 91 19:30:15 PDT
From: vather@pnet03.cts.COM (Trevor Smith)
Subject: newgroup question

        I haven't seen this posted lately, FWIW, but could someone do me the
favor of sending me the list of external speciality groups (such as this one).
The list I currently have is very out of date (based on the mail deamons that
came chasing after me).
        Thanks in advance.
                                Trevor Z Smith

UUCP: crash!pnet01!pnet03!vather
INET: vather@pnet03.cts.com


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2664
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1991 00:54 EST
From: "Alvin M. Chan" <CHAN93%SNYBUFVA.BITNET@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: re:re: autofire etc (mayhem,death,etc)

>Date: Sun, 21 Jul 91 11:44:18 -0400
>From: teets@frith.egr.msu.edu
>Subject: (2651) RE:(2621) Autofire

[stuff about burst-fire/autofire deleted...]
[good stuff about missed shots while trying to kill 'bob' deleted...]

>messy with their "hit" jobs will get a lot more heat.  Not only will the
>       players
>be in trouble for the murder (or maybe assault) or the target but also of the
>people standing around them.  Killing a known pirate will probably get the
>players a little sympathy but not if they also accidently killed 7 by-standers
>and wounded 12 others.  Oops, sorry about that, back to the rules.  Roll for
>       the
>missed shots against another target normally.  If it hits go back to the auto
>fire rules but after a miss don't roll again.  After all it is unlikey the
>player is trying to bring his aim back on them.  As for missed shots, when an
>area is pretty empty simply roll once any more than that and roll more times up
>to 5 or 6 rolls for a really crowded area.

you could always do the 'Kill with extreme prejudice' sort of thing, and follow
the credo of "KILL EM ALL AND LET GOD (ugh) SORT EM OUT"...that way, there are
no real misses, unless you count the people who DID survive!  Intention?
No witnesses? no problem!  of course this is not for the 'self-defense-only'
minded unless of course one is latent paranoid.  Will that make dice rolls a
little simpler? 8-)  roll for success of search and destroy, with the emphasis
on DESTROY! (eg: non-trading mission/wipe out competition)

[stuff about being careful   deleted....heheh]

>bring multiple deaths.  This works the same with grenades.  Although these rule
   s
>may seem tiresome they tend to make the players much more careful about wieldin
   g
>weapons with such zeal.  And make enemies who do use them as such seem much mor
   e
>villainous, making them much more important to hunt down.  Thank you.
>Matt Teets

geeez, I liked my team being BAD guys; it gives the cops and/or/and villains an
incentive to party/rock-and-roll. 8-)

(of course dont try this on a known to be unamused Referee.. "secret roll, oh,
so sorry guys, your guns jammed/overheated/ran-out/blew-up, take your pick..
choose your death, and start rolling up some new characters!)

                                                        - Alv

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2665
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 91 22:15:13 -0700
From: George William Herbert <gwh@ocf.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject: Large Warships and Plastic Ships


	plastic ships first, they're shorter to deal with 8-)
	We did an analysis of the hull weights etc. and why you'd want it that
that thick earlier on the list.  The conclusions were that level-40 is not
needed for any significant reason..._except_ radiation protection over the
long term for the crew.  And there is simply no way around having to shield
the crews; they'll spend all their time in space, and will recieve unhealthy
doses over a few years if you scrimp on thickness.  Plastic ships, while
structurally valid (if not as well armoured for combat 8-), don't give very
good radiation shielding at all.

	Large Ships...
	Funny that it just came up.  I've been working with the designs
in Fighting Ships of the Shattered Imperium a lot over the last few days,
and the starship combat rules, and I just decided to set up a computer 
program to handle large-scale combat for me.  The results are not yet in,
but by friday or so I'll have a few dozen battles under my belt, and the
facilities to easily run more, so we'll see what happens when 1500 fighters
and an Atlantis take on three Battle Riders... 8-)
	The program's in Hypercard/hypertalk for mac, so if anyone else
out there is interested, I'll pass it around once it's debugged.  It's probably
going to cut some corners in places, but ought to be useful.

- - -george william herbert
gwh@ocf.berkeley.edu

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2666
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 91 14:15:36 BST
From: Jo Jaquinta <jaymin@maths.tcd.ie>
Subject: World Builder's Handbook Software

	Last I heard there was no sign of this coming out. Since my
Library Data program fairly meets the functional specifications of their
ad I've been contemplating offering to sell it to them. Anyone out there
with their finger in DGP who might say what there policy on such things
are? [Note: I already intend to send it to be reviewed by their shareware
column].

	The program has expanded and now has full details for all the
UPP figures (all the way down to local customs &c), more tolerably fast
globe generation (with rotation). It creates the planet names from the
apropriate tables depending on the Alliegence (anyone know of tables for
Sylean, Darrian, or other obscure alliegences?), volcanoes and cities
appear on the map and bits and pieces more.
	I will put the new version on the mail server on the 1st of August.
			Jo Jaquinta
			jaymin@maths.tcd.ie

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2667
Date:     Tue, 23 Jul 91 9:39:08 EDT
From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Re:  (2662) Large Warship design problems

In your letter dated Mon, 22 Jul 1991 19:38 -0500, you wrote:
>
> Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1991 19:38 -0500
> From: SULAIMAN@ecs.umass.edu
> Subject: (2662) Large Warship design problems
> 
> I wasn't doing much this weekend so I decided to check out some of
> the warship designs that have been submitted on this list. After
> Steve Higginbotham's "Sikkinthar" and "Aenoegrr" class ships, I
> felt rather humbled and obligated to support his premise. So I
> decided to check on whether his assertion had any validity. Steve's
> assertion being that 8 of his Sikkinthar class (7ktons) could
> destroy a Atlantis class (1 million tons). 

Almost anything will destroy an Atlantis class...as the designer I should
know.  You should probably be aware of a couple of things with regard to
the Atlantis before using it as an example of anything.

1) It was originally designed using High Guard and converted to MT with as
few modifications as possible.

2) It was designed as an experiment to see what the 'maximum tonnage' ship
would look like.

3) It was assigned to the Imperial Glisten Navy, which was the first fleet
that I designed, and which therefore had a bunch of questionable designs,
such as Particle Accelerator cruisers (bad idea in High Guard) and some 
smaller vessels with armors of 3 or so (also a bad idea in High Guard as this
allows a nuclear missile the possibility of an interior hit.)

4) Its game rationalization is that it was built for 'prestige' or 'propaganda'
purchases.  Besides, if doing a force on force comparison of an Atlantis
versus something else, you should really factor in the subsidiary craft. The
three 10000ton riders with Meson Gun-J are not bad ships.  (Not great either--
I just did a Mk II 10kton rider last week...)

> What I found was rather amusing. Actually it would take only 5 to
> do the job. This got me thinking on whether any of the other
> capital ship (20ktons + ) were any good. I found that in general
> they were not. It seems that most of these warships were built with
> the "bigger is better" mentality with no regard to their actual
> effectiveness. Before I go into further details let me point out a
> few things that I noted:
> 
> 1. Most capital ships were heavily overarmored, overpriced and very
> vulnerable to meson weapons. Most designs would be LESS vulnerable
> to ALL weapons if they were LESS armored. 
> 
> 2. I do not know if anyone has actually done any large scale combat
> with these starships( or any other starships tonnage > 20 kt) in
> large numbers. I have a feeling that the designs would be a lot
> different if they had done even rudimentary tests. If someone has,
> it would be of great benefits to the "architects" to know its
> results. 

Yes.  But only with High Guard.  I pitted the Glisten fleet against a surprise
attack by a TL13 industrial planet as part of the Fifth Frontier War.  The
enemy was using a fleet consisting of only four standard designs--a 1000 ton
missile boat, a 6000 ton missile armed 'destroyer', a 28000 ton 'cruiser'
armed with the largest available particle accelerator (R?), and a 60000 ton
'battlecruiser' armed with the largest available meson gun.  All hulls were
configuration 4 for lowest possible price, and there was little armor.  The
overall results were that the TL13 vessels died in droves due to the computer
imbalance (agilities were generally about equal), but since they outnumbered
the Glisten fleet at almost every encounter, they were able to destroy most
of the large Glisten ships (the Lemuria of the Atlantis class survived by not
engaging in combat).  The Ospreys (under High Guard) and the Sun Tzus stood
up reasonably well, but since their PA main armament was laughable, they
got ignored in the early combat rounds.  I had a class of 8000 ton cruisers
armed with a Meson Gun E (don't ask--J would have been better, but I _said_
this was my first fleet) which I have not yet converted to MT because there
was _one_ survivor out of a class of 60.  The Revenge class battlecruisers
did OK with their large meson guns, but they were prime targets and out-
numbered so I lost about 2/3 of them.  The Lobachevsky's with their covey of
15 10kton meson gun J riders were probably the stars of the whole thing.
When they finally got engaged, it was all over for the much-depleted TL13
fleet.  As a result of these combat tests, I redesigned the fleet under
High Guard rules and had even laid out what the procurement schedule would
be through about 1120 when MT finally came out.  The Type 1107 destroyer,
the Sun Tzu refit, The refit Osprey with Meson Gun N (only one that can be
substituted for PA T), the Nergal, the Yathaghan (good High Guard design
that doesn't translate due to shift in the agility rules), and the 11000ton
meson gun destroyer (forget the class name), as well as the fighters with
the computer 7s and computer 9s are part of the redesign.  I guess I'll
give them a test drive one of these days when I get around to doing a TL13/14
Aslan Ihatei fleet to my taste.  Anyway, the bottom line is that I know that
a lot of the IGN designs are not sound, but I converted them to MT anyway
because there were survivors from the Fifth Frontier War still in service.

> 3. There were hardly any capital ship designs with PA spinals, yet
> there were lots of ships with armor > 60. Similarly there was a lot
> of use of the TL 15 50 ton factor 9 missile bay but NOONE used the
> more effective 100 t factor A missile bay. 

Old High Guard habits...most of my large warships (all of the Glisten Navy)
used 50ton missile bays because there were no 100 ton TL15 missile bays, so
I didn't change them when I converted.  I also used to put in spinal PAs, which
made the high armor necessary.  As it is--which comes first?  If I reduce armor
then the enemy will build PA armed ships in their next procurement cycle, and
I will have to uparmor mine to compensate, as well as be left with a bunch
of vulnerable ships.  I think real designers faced with this problem would
either a) accept the PA casualties for increased agility or b) routinely armor
at such a level as to render PAs useless, and either solution would be
acceptable.  My earliest designs used a lot of PAs because I liked the idea 
that there was 'no defense'.  It was much later that I actually tried combat
and realized that they did too little damage to be really useful.

> 4. It seemed to me that the rider/tender vs battleship controversy
> is now decided firmly in favor of the rider/tender. A 100,000 ton
> tender brings far more spinal mounts to bear than a 200,000t
> battleship. And when both sides have armor 60+ than the battle is
> decided by who is nimbler and with more spinal weapons. 

Agreed.  The retreat issue as discussed in old Trav is still valid though--
I tend to expect that fleets would run toward medium meson gun jump capable
cruisers for forward system screens (which would run if disadvantaged) and
rider squadrons to remain concentrated for the counterattack.  Battleships
are very questionable.

> 5. Steve Higginbotham's designs assume a standard 24/72 cruise
> endurance with a 1/3 peak power endurance. For those who may have
> played large scale capital ships battles, a question. How realistic
> is this figure? It seems very suitable since all my battles were
> over in 2-5 rounds (40-100 min). 

The 24 cruise endurance seems potentially a little short if you start looking
at insystem maneuvering requirments, but the 1 day peak power duration is
probably quite long enough.  As you have seen, I like to figure that all of the
fuel tanks can be crossconnected and that the power plant can be 'throttled
back' at least to a limited number of settings, which gives you the flexibility
to fight two or three separated insystem battles without need of refueling, 
which Steve's ships could probably do too even though he has chosen to
represent his power distribution differently.

> 6. I think the Imperial requirement of warship specs should be
> amended as follows. 
> 
> Imperial warships should be J-4 with a cruise endurance of 21/63+.
> Cruise implying constant 2-G accel (1/3rd power) with all noncombat
> systems powered and some offensive and defensive systems powered. 
> 
> All warships should be capable of 6-G, Agility - 6 and all
> weapons/screens powered at peak powerplant output. The endurance
> for this peak performance being atleast 1/3 days. 
> I will also recommend that all Imperial warships > 100,000t be
> battle tenders. The reasoning for this will become clear soon. 
> 
> 7. As an interesting aside, the requirement for armor becomes lower
> as ship size increases. A 100,000t ship has less need of armor than
> a 20,000 t ship. 

A reasonable specification system.  Note that thrust based maneuver 
calculations can make it difficult to actually achieve 6-G in any ship 
with even minimal (50+) armor.

> All the following assume standard MT vehicle construction rules:
> All die rolls are assume craft at long range for combat purposes.
> 
> Atlantis class (1,000,000 t battleship) 
> vs.
> Sikkinthar class SDB(7,000 t)
> 
> Atlantis Price MCr903,000          Sikkinthar Price MCr7100
> TL15, DefDM=+7,Armor=82G           TL15, DefDM=+15, Armor = 40G
> Weapon:        
> Spinal-T Meson Gun                 Spinal N-Meson gun
> To Hit: 10+                        Auto
> To Pen Meson Screen: 4+            7+
> To Pen Conf: 3+                    Auto
> Shots Needed to Get a Hit: 6.7     1.7
> 
> Beam Lasers Factor=9
> To Hit: 11+                        None
> To Pen: Auto
> Shots Needed to Get a Hit: 12
> 
> Missiles Factor=9
> To Hit: 8+                         Auto
> To Pen Nuc Damp : 10+              10+
> To Pen Beam/sand: Auto             5+
> To Pen Repulsor: Auto              Impossible
> 
> Particle Accel Factor = 9
> To Hit: 10+                        None
> 
> After one round of combat Atlantis was destroyed by 5 SDB. 2 SDB
> were damaged none was destroyed. The damage was from the spinals
> which are guaranteed a hit on the Atlantis. 

Well, I might wish that you would include the Atlantis' 13 2kt+ riders and
the several hundred fighters with comp-9s in the analysis, figuring that 
these subcraft will act as a screen for a couple of rounds before the main
ship actually joins combat.  After all, they are included in the price you're
quoting for the price comparison.

> Note Factor-N spinal is by no means the largest spinal that can be
> put on a starship or a SDB of 7-50ktons. Note also the price
> differnce betwwen the two craft.
> 
> What follows is an off the cuff analysis of other large ships
> designs that have been put on the list. All assume that the firing
> ship has the best computer for that TL. Shown Spinals are the
> SMALLEST ones that have a chance to get through. Also shown are the
> larger calibers available at that tech level:
> 
> 1. Atlantis class battleship. Def DM = +7
> 2. Osprey class battleship. Def DM = +8
> 3. Nergal class battleship. Def DM = +8
> 4. Atlantic class cruiser. Def DM = +10
> 5. Revenge class SDB/Rider. Def DM = +9
> TL-13 Meson - L
> To Hit: 3+/4+/4+/6+/4+
> To Pen Screen: 10+/10+/10+/9+/10+
> To Pen Conf: Auto/5+/7+/Auto/4+
> Larger Caliber: P
> 
> TL-14 Meson - G
> To Hit: Auto/3+/3+/5+/3+
> To Pen Screen: 11+/11+/11+/10+/11+
> To Pen Conf: Auto/7+/7+/Auto/6+
> Larger Caliber: H,M,Q,R
> 
> TL-15 Meson - J
> To Hit: Auto/Auto/Auto/4+/Aut
> To Pen Screen: 9+/9+/9+/8+/9+
> To Pen Conf: Auto/6+/6+/Auto/5+
> Larger Caliber: N,R,T
> 
> All above craft had factor-9 meson screens. As can be seen all are
> basically guaranteed hit at long range. The fact that it is hard
> for a "run-of-the-mill" spinal mount to penetrate the best possible
> screen is small consolation. Their best hope seems to be increased
> agility but with the bulk of factor 60+ armor, it is practically
> impossible for any of the above to have any agility over 1 and not
> even that in most cases.

Small consolation indeed, because small meson gun size can usually be 
balanced within any given budget for more hulls, definitely putting
the advantage on the side of the smaller distributed weapons systems.
Do we want to rehash the 'what is agilitly argument'?  Your analysis, that
improving agility is the key to survival, appears to be correct.  I just
don't like the way it is handled in MT, not to mention the unresolved
ambiguities in how it is calculated.  My ships, at least, were High Guard
conversions, and it should be remembered that it was easy under those
rules to keep your agility up to the level of your maneuver drive _and_ have
a reasonable armor class, so the ships mentioned above were not quite so
crippled as they appear to be now.

> Which led me to my next question as to why have armour in the first
> place? The primary reason seems to be the fear of the spinal PAs
> with their "Penetrate-All" attack. Strangely though I have seen
> just one ship with a spinal PA. The other reason seems to be
> nuclear missiles. The T-PAWS cannot deliver any automatic criticals
> to a vessel over 50ktons. So that will rule out protection against
> crits as an excuse. To avoid the "Interior Explosion" and
> "Critical" hit results on the Surface Explosion or Radiation Damage
> chart you only need armor factor 52(-4 to damage die roll). A case
> could be made to make a vessel invulnerable to secondary weapons.
> However it is a pretty weak case as secondary weapons rarely do
> enough damage to seriously effect the firepower of any capital
> ship. Actually it seems that the bigger ships have little to fear
> from PAs and more to fear from their size and lack of agility.

Please check my recent designs for the number of craft carrying armor 52
for this reason...Your analysis is quite correct.  The other potentially
useful armor values are 82 (minimum to avoid all surface damage from
secondary weapons) and 100 (minimum to avoid all surface damage.)  I
might calculate the mimimum necessary to avoid manuever hits from surface
damage too.  Once again, the spectre of High Guard hovers over the fleets.

> Even the largest Spinals can be carried on smaller cruiser size
> craft and that would render little need for larger vessels. The
> only really good reasoning that I can come up for a 100,000t +
> craft is as a battle tender or carrier(much like today..). With
> factor-9 meson screen, agility 6 and dispersed configuration it
> stands a good chance against meson weapons, and if armored to 52 it
> can survive PAs too; atleast until help arrives or it can jump.

Yes.  If I ever do another fleet, the cruiser with a meson gun N or lower
tech equivalent will be the largest jump capable combat ship.  (Poor Glisten,
always behind the times...)

> Ameer

Rob Dean


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2668
Date:     Tue, 23 Jul 91 9:56:27 EDT
From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Re:  (2660) Plastic ships - flights of fancy ?

> From: Hugh Schoenemann <hugh@pyra.co.uk>
> Subject: (2660) Plastic ships - flights of fancy ?
> 
> Greetings everyone,
> 
> This may seem a rather stupid question to some, so please indulge
> my ignorance or the possibility it's been discussed here before.

This answer may look a little strange, because I started at the bottom
and worked my way back toward the top.

> I was thinking the other day about the possibility of using plas-
> tics in the construction of starships, that is the external hull.
> Given the weight ratios between "standard" metal  structures  and
> their  plastic  counterparts, would it not be more fuel-efficient
> to use plastics and thus benefit from  any  weight  savings  that
> might accrue ?

Well, this is the weak link in the whole thing.  If you actually have a
structure which _requires_ the strength of a given piece of steel, replacing
it with 'light weight' materials usually gains you little advantage because
the ratio of the tensile strength to the weight is often equal to or inferior
to steel.  Replacing a 100 lb load bearing steel member  with a 300 lb 
aluminum member to get the same strength is not much help.  In the real world
savings can often be made because the extra strenght is not really needed.
Besides, the TL7 and TL9 composite structures may well include plastic
components, so it's already taken into account.

> I then thought to myself, "Well, what would happen upon free-fall
> re-entry  ?  Fried  plastic  blob  hits deck at G ?" Perhaps not.
> Wouldn't it be possible to shield the ship using good ol' ceramic
> tiles a la Space Shuttle ?

Ah! But with grav vehicles we can take the reentry at any speed we want.
We've got power, thrust and duration to burn, and if you want to hover
over one spot for hours while you ease down into the atmosphere, you can
do it.  This aspect of Traveller has been somehwat neglected--as for 
example in the rule that still says that an unstreamlined hull cannot
land on a planet with an atmosphere...

> Then the problem of aging occurred to me.  Plastics  age  through
> photo-chemical  reactions  caused  by  the interaction of natural
> phenomena (sun, wind, rain, local soil etc.) with  the  plastic's
> own  atomic  structure  (plastics-  or  organic chemists - please
> shoot me down in flames if this is a misconception on  my  part).
> This  can  be  useful,  for example when designing bio-degradable
> plastics,  but would surely be an undesirable trait in  plastics-
> for-space-vehicles  purposes.  Given that UV light (which clearly
> lends a hand in the aging process) is shielded  somewhat  by  our
> atmosphere (unless you live in Antarctica, that is), wouldn't the
> situation be that much worse in vacuum where  no  such  shielding
> takes place ? I suppose solving this problem might help solve the
> next ...

Well, in the real world plastics which are required to stand out in the
sun for prolonged service will frequently have an additive such as
carbon black added as a UV screen.  Between internal additives and external
paints and coatings (we could aluminize the hull for example) this could
be ignored.

> I remember hearing years back that all plastics are, to a greater
> or  lesser extent, porous.  Is this true ? How could this be com-
> pensated for or, preferably, eliminated when considering  plastic
> vehicles ?

Quite true.  However, the amount of porosity could be considered to be
insignificant in this context.  In the course of my job, I've dealt with
helium leak tests performed on containers made out of 1/4 inch thick
high density polyethylene.  Helium is used because of its high ability
to permeate any gap.  A properly sealed container retains enough helium
for test purposes for many months--which translates into plenty of time
to get to a starport and get another air bottle.

> Note that I didn't consider strength as a factor in my reasoning.
> Why  not  ? Well, I reckon that a ship-asteroid collision at some
> of the speeds frequently discussed on the TML will turn both ship
> and  contents  into  so  much blackberry jelly no matter what the
> ship's made of. Comments ?

While there is little point in considering structural strength vis-a-vis
asteroid collisions, having a ship which is capable of standing up to your
maximum acceleration would be desirable.  I'm not sure if inertial comp-
ensators (which I've always viewed as more grav plates mounted to be able
to cancel the drive gravity effect internally) would help the external
structure of the hull or not.  Also, I'm not conversant with radiation
shielding effects of plastic.  George Herbert has pointed out that the
best reason for the armor 40 hull minimum is to provide long term radiation
shielding for the crew.

Does that help any?

Rob Dean


------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
*****************

To: traveller
Subject: TML Bundle #219: Msgs 2669-2681
Reply-To: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Precedence: bulk
--------

TML Bundles come from the archives of the Traveller Mailing List,
maintained by James Perkins, traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com.

----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Thu Aug  8 09:52:22 PDT 1991
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #219: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
2669  23-Jul-91 Simon Anderson    Starship Ecomomics << More on MegaCorps ... C
2670  23-Jul-91 Leonard Erickson  How to kill a battleship... << On the subject
2671  23-Jul-91 richard@oresoft.C A Little Something to Chew On << 2019,117, De
2672  23-Jul-91 mwc@jake.cc.wayne Re: (2660) Plastic Starships << - -----------
2673  24-Jul-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha Re: Autofire << > From: teets@frith.egr.msu.e
2674  24-Jul-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha Planetary Bombardments << > From: Marc Alexan
2675  24-Jul-91 KELLOGG@ducvax.au Running old starships adveture idea (LONG!) <
2676  24-Jul-91 SULAIMAN@ecs.umas Large ships and meson guns.... << In answer t
2677  25-Jul-91 MacGyver          MegaTraveller II demo << I've uploaded a demo
2678  25-Jul-91 KELLOGG@ducvax.au Planetary Bombardment << It's time for my 2 c
2679  25-Jul-91 brianm@ism.isc.CO Megatraveller II computer game << Possible sp
2680  25-Jul-91 Carl Fago         DGP Product Info << This was posted on GEnie 
2681  26-Jul-91 Simon Anderson    High-speed Spaceguns << Leonard Erickson writ

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2669
From: Simon Anderson <cse426@cck.coventry.ac.uk>
Subject: Starship Ecomomics
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 91 16:19:34 WET DST

More on MegaCorps ...

Cynthia Higginbotham writes :
[On why Megacorps have all the trade in the galaxy tied up.]

> 1) If a good spec trade route already exists, a  major  corporation  will
> have it tied up solidly.

This would mean that the megacorps  spend  most  of  their  resources  on
keeping  hold  of all the speculative trade routes, routes that are going
to shift & change at the whim of their customers. To  quote  you  from  a
previous article

> Subject: (2617) starship prices & economics

> Steve Higginbotham:

> There  is  every indication (from the tables) that only a small ship (400
> tons or less) can make any significant amount of  money  by  spec  trade.
> Significant  in  terms of starship payments. If there was that much money
> to be made, Tukera would get an exclusive contract, and the profit  to  a
> starship owner would vanish.

The  problem  with  speculative trade, from a Megacorps point of view, is
that it doesn't involve a regular, reliable supply and demand. It's  made
up  of  lots  of  little  cargoes,  which  may not be available twice and
involve certain risks. They're unlikely to fetch the same price twice  on
the  same planet - it takes a skilled crew to make significant profits on
such deals. 

If a Megacorporation wanted to make a profit  from  the  differing  trade
classifications  of  two  planets,  it  would  set  up a regular run, buy
manufacturing capacity on the source world and set up retail  outlets  on
the  destination  world (s ). That's what Megacorps do, it lets them ship
thousands of tons of cargo in big ships and make real profits. 

With such a profitable business  to  engage  in,  why  then  should  they
divert  valuable  skilled  employees, who could make them much more money
elsewhere, to small speculative trade runs which would cover the cost  of
the  starship  in  a few decades ? That's not to say they don't make some
use of free traders for checking  out  new  markets  - the  free  traders
given  as  retirement  bonuses  are  clear  evidence  of  their buying up
bankrupt merchants and using them for a while,  but  the  way  they  give
them  away seems to show that they aren't using them as a major source of
income - It's easier to give a leftover ship to an ex-captain  who  wants
to continue to do a little trading, and collect the payments from him. 

> 4) Assuming your business plan is based on  speculative  trade,  it  will
> mostly  likely be a newly profitable route.  If the route continues to be
> profitable, in the long run Tukera or a similar large shipping firm  will
> undoubtably move in and take it over.

That  doesn't  mean  the  route  will  no longer be profitable. The goods
available for speculative  trade  represent  the  'spare'  output  of  an
entire  planet,  which  would  take hundreds of large ships to move, even
assuming the planetary government  would  let  a  single  megacorporation
take  over every manufacturing business, and the destination planets that
are prepared to pay enough for these goods for them to be profitable  are
likely  to  want  *anything*  the source planet is selling, so a megacorp
buying up all the air-raft spares (for instance) is  unlikely  to  affect
the market for, say, military weapons. 

> 5) Given: you have to explain your route to the  lending  agency.  Given:
> the  lending  agency is a part-owner or is owned by Tukera or other major
> shipping firm, it is not  unreasonable  that  the  lending  agency  might
> inform  its  parent of any potentially profitable leads that it acquires.
> A secret shared is no longer a secret.

Speculative  trade  routes  aren't  secret -  anyone checking through the
planetary trade classifications can see which planets will sell  low  and
which  are  likely  to  buy  high. The very nature of the small ships and
small individual cargoes used for such trade means that the  markets  can
never get too much of the goods. 

> 6) It is also not unreasonable that the lending agency will make  a  loan
> in  spite  of  the fact that it knows that no profit will be made and the
> starship will be repossessed. This is because  they  can  then  sell  the
> starship  to  Tukera or whoever at a breakeven price for the bank, and at
> a considerable profit for Tukera. The only loser is the poor schmuck  who
> got the loan.

The  real  looser from such a deal would be the bank. The person (s ) who
got the loan loose their 20% deposit (or  whatever  ),  small  change  to
everyone  but  them, the Megacorp gets a starship at a price certainly no
less than they could  have  had  it  build  for,  and  the  bank  gets  a
reputation  for double-crossing it's customers. That bank can't close and
start trading under another name, it can't keep insider dealing  on  such
a  scale a secret, and it's reputation is linked to the megacorps who own
it. 

> 7)  This  happens in the real world. In the U.S., we have Anti-Trust Laws
> and insider trading regulations, etc  to  prevent  this  sort  of  thing.
> However,   indications  are  that  the  Imperium  does  not  interfere in
> business to that extent, especially since the  imperial  family  and  the
> high  nobility  are  significant  stockholders  in said megacorporations.
> Expect such scenarios to be even more common in Margaret's Imperium.

The Imperium doesn't interfere  with  interstellar  trade  and  commerce,
that's  left  to  the  individual  planetary  governments.  The  problems
imposed on megacorps by such governments are  completely  different  from
those  faced  by  independent  free  traders.  The  only  limitations  on
megacorps are how much of each planet it's government will let them  buy.
They  can  afford  to build as many ships as they can make a profit with,
they have the organisation to sell goods  produced  on  one  world  on  a
dozen  others,  and  so  they  can  specialise and use bulk-production to
lower costs and raise profits. 

But such a setup would make each planet dependent on the  output  of  all
those  others it received goods from, and especially on the megacorp that
found markets for all it's goods and supplied all it's needs. 

Such an arrangement might well benefit the planets involved, raise  their
living  standards  and  encourage  interstellar peace and harmony as each
planet found their ideal place in the orderly interstellar empire. 

But how many planetary governments are going to sell  their  planet  into
what  would  effectively  be  slavery,  giving  a megacorp control of any
significant portion of their economy would give  that  megacorp  leverage
to  push for whatever it wanted, and there would be no hope of assistance
from  the  Imperium  - It  doesn't  interfere  in   interstellar   trade,
remember.  And if the Megacorps banks have been ripping people off to get
the deposits they paid for their free-traders, how trustworthy are  these
people who say they want to help run your planet ? 

> Again,  the  upshot  is that, given the *present * pricing scheme, in the
> Imperium, most commercial starships will be owned by  the  government  in
> the  form of subsidized merchants, or government-protected in the form of
> megacorporate ships. Is this the picture of the Imperium that you want?
>--- Steve & Cynthia

The  present  pricing scheme is only applicable to small free traders, it
says nothing about megacorps being able to buy up *all * the  speculative
cargo  at the same prices. It does demonstrate that free traders can make
a speculative profit if they're good at what they do, which is what  it's
there for. 

"What's  that  Mr Carcharias ? The pharmaceuticals in District 268 ? Yes,
we'd already tried for an exculsive contract, but their government  won't
touch  us  after  you  stole  so  many  of their peoples money in crooked
starship deals.  They  said  they  preferred  not  to  give  a  bunch  of
criminals  control  of  their  economy,  even when we bribed the heads of
state, their police took a week to quiet the riots after  they  announced
the  deal,  so  they  had  to  call it off. Your methods of operation are
becomming a liablity, stock dividends from new business  have  fallen and
I'm afraid the banks going to have to let you go. Goodbye Mr Carcharias."

		Simon Anderson

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2670
Date: 23 Jul 91 05:25:46 EDT
From: Leonard Erickson <70465.203@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: How to kill a battleship...

On the subject of Planetary invasions vs large ships, allow me the
suggest that folks should read Roger McBride Allen's "Rogue Powers". In
it the big ship folks learn a hard lesson during a sneak attack. 

The invaders had Jumped into the system far enough out to be
effectively indetectable (say beyond the orbit of Saturn in the Sol
system). Then they careful set up the weapon....

A *big* mass driver on an asteriod hull. It fired multi kilogram
projectiles at say 10 km/sec or better. They were aimed as a "time on
target" barrage. Sure, it takes *months* for them to arrive on target. 
So what?

You *cannot* armor against a several kilo projectile with a relative
velocity in the tens of km/sec. And all a big ship gets you is the
chance to intercept more of these "rocks". 

If we assume high TLs in traveller, I bet we could boost these things
to a high fraction of lightspeed. In which cause they are equivalent to
a nuke! And they are *inherently* stealthed. Scratch any ship whose
moves you can predict sufficiently far in advance. 

True, this is *definitely* limited to a "Pearl Harbor" scenario, but
they can happen... say just as the big naval manuevers get underway?
:-)




------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2671
From: richard@oresoft.COM (Richard Johnson)
Subject: A Little Something to Chew On
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 91 9:52:50 PDT

2019,117, Deneb News Service...  (Imagine the smiling bimbo holo)

After a prolonged firefight, the far trader "Ducal Wind" safely
reached port today.  Upon entering the Deneb system two days ago,
they were besieged by a Vargr corsair that quickly disabled the
"Ducal Wind's" lasers and computer.  In desparation, the crew
jettisoned their cargo of agricultural goods.  The cargo pods
drifted between the "wind" and the approaching corsair, and
intercepted a laser blast.

Imagine the surprise of both crews when the pods exploded!

It seems their cargo was popcorn.
- - -- 
Richard Johnson     richard@oresoft.com      richard@agora.rain.com

WARNING: This product warps space and time in its vicinity.

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2672
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 91 14:37:26 EDT
From: mwc@jake.cc.wayne.edu (Mick Collins)
Subject: Re: (2660) Plastic Starships



- - ------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Jul 91 13:27:40 GMT-0:00
From: Hugh Schoenemann <hugh@pyra.co.uk>

Then the problem of aging occurred to me.  Plastics  age  through
photo-chemical  reactions  caused  by  the interaction of natural
phenomena (sun, wind, rain, local soil etc.) with  the  plastic's
own  atomic  structure  (plastics-  or  organic chemists - please
shoot me down in flames if this is a misconception on  my  part).
This  can  be  useful,  for example when designing bio-degradable
plastics,  but would surely be an undesirable trait in  plastics-
for-space-vehicles  purposes.  Given that UV light (which clearly
lends a hand in the aging process) is shielded  somewhat  by  our
atmosphere (unless you live in Antarctica, that is), wouldn't the
situation be that much worse in vacuum where  no  such  shielding
takes place ? I suppose solving this problem might help solve the
next ...

I remember hearing years back that all plastics are, to a greater
or  lesser extent, porous.  Is this true ? How could this be com-
pensated for or, preferably, eliminated when considering  plastic
vehicles ?


- - ----- End Included Message -----

  A polymer coating would probably stop UV deterioration, or at least
slow it down considerably.  It would also neatly solve the problem of porousness.  Given sufficent tech level, a decent plastic could be impregnated with other non-metallic materials(it suddenly occurred to me what you're
getting at) for increased solidity.  It would also help if the ship was 
designed/used for strictly non-atmospheric purposes |^>.
  Yeah, I could see these things in kit form, too("40 quid, mate--some resin,
a little Testors, and you're off! See yer on Jedispere!)
                                                  Mick


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2673
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se (Bertil Jonell)
Subject: Re: Autofire
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 91 17:15:19 MET DST

> From: teets@frith.egr.msu.edu
> Subject: (2651) RE:(2621) Autofire
> 
> 	When a weapon is put on auto and fired at a target the weapon will tend 
> to "junp" (for lack of a better word).  Once it has started to jump in one 
> direction it will tend to continue to go in this direction as long as it 
> continues to fire.
  
  How much it jumps depends on the weapon and the cartridge. I'd expect that
a 3.5kg assault rifle firing 5.56N ammo will jump noticably more than a 4.5kg
SMG firing 9mmP. (There are of course other factors that influence this too, 
such as the method the weapon use for cycling, wether the weapon is hand-
held or emplaced and so on.)

> 	Next:  For very shot over the first the to-hit roll is at -1 cumulative.
> for stabalized weapons, or -2 cumulative for non stabalized.  This really 
> represents how hard it is to keep an auto-firing weapon on target (known from
> 3 years of experience).

  I think that -2 per shot across the board really much. It all depends on the
weapon and the firer and what the firer is doing.

  (This is an addition to my mention of the Twilight autofire rules. In Twilight
every weapon has recoil figure. If the total recoil of all bursts fired in a
phase is higher that the strength of the firer, the difference is the number
of dice will be subtracted from *each* burst in that round.
  Say that someone with strenght 5 (about average) wants to fire 3 bursts of 
3 rounds each at a target using a M16A2. The recoil for the M16A2 is 2 per
burst, so the total recoil is 6, which is one over the firers strength, so one
die will be subtracted from each of the three bursts. The result is that only
two dice per burst will be rolled for a total of six d6 (and every '6' is a hit)
  If the firer had fired only two bursts, each burst had been counted in full,
giving six die in this case too, so the third burst was just a waste of ammo.
  And if the firer want to fire more bursts in the same phase the number of
dice rolled will decrease, and so will the chances of hitting anything.)

> 	Now we get into those nasty missed shots.  These can be discarded in an
> open field but not a crowded area.

  All open fields might not be so safe those either. There is a case right now 
here in Sweden where a passing driver were hit in the head by a 7.62N and
killed when driving on a road about 3km from a military target range. It's 
still unknown if the shot had been fired at high elevation (totally against all
regulations) or if it had richochetted upwards somehow, but IMHO a richochette
that goes 3km sounds unlikely.

> Matt Teets
> ------------------------------

- - -bertil-
- - -- 
"Oops!" - PC after managing to accidentaly discharge a borrowed rapid pulse
 fusion gun inside the ship, leading to a hull breach, a electrical fire in one
 air-lock, total power failure, and various other interesting happenings.
 Fortunately for him, the first thing destroyed was the power-feed for the gun:)

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2674
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se (Bertil Jonell)
Subject: Planetary Bombardments
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 91 17:44:12 MET DST

> From: Marc Alexandrovich Volovic <mav@cs.huji.ac.il>
> Subject: (2652) YACOPI (Yet Another Comment On Planetary Invasions)
> 
>   I assume the following - Steve Kellog suggested a possible way to
> obliterate (or, at the very least, heavily damage) any planet by a single
> Type S scout. This is a tactic employable by any starfaring nation. The
> only possibility is to have it mutually proscribed, the same going for
> planetary bombardment to destruction. Otherwise - better not speak, eh?

  There is also a psycological angle that shouldn't be forgotten. People tend 
to remember things like that for a long long time. A case in point would be the
Sack of Gashikan(sp?) which still affects human-vargr relations in the 1120's.
  And the total destruction of a high-pop planet would probably breed hatred on
an incredible scale from not only the allies of the ex-planet, but from 
everyone that could ever imagine that the bombing side could be in opposition
to them.
  I think that this is the reason why the Zhodanis never simply nuked Efate and
Jewell into oblivision and why the Imperial Navy went to all the trouble of
conquering Terra and not simply dump a few multi-megaton displacement asteroids
on it.
  If the Zhodanis had done it the 5FW wouldn't have ended in a cease-fire, the
population of the Imperium ("Efate yesterday, *Your* planet tomorrow?") would
have demanded that the Consulate be crushed totally and mercilessly (I doubt
that the Imperium could pull that off, but that is beside the point).
  And if you think that the Solomanis are bad enough already, imagine them
fueled by the destruction of Terra.

  In either case, I'd give Capitol five years before some terrorists, Zhodani
or Solomani, manage to used the Type S caper on it, or dump some virulent 
bioweapon on it, or something equally nasty, and the violence would escalate
from there...

- - -bertil-
- - -- 
"How about black and yellow striped with neon-green highlights?" - The PCs tries
 to camouflage their ship.

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2675
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1991 15:12 CDT
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: Running old starships adveture idea (LONG!)

Greetings Refs

A few days ago Rob Dean asked about how to implement the use of older
starships for the use of players.  Well, in every campaign I have run
thus far the players have started out with a very old starship with a
few peculiarities to prey upon the players sensibilities.

There is a series of short stories by Stanislaw Lem called 'The Tales
of Pirx the Pilot' all very good stuff and possible trav inspirations.
But the one I have used (twice now) as an introductory incident/adventure
is the last story in the book:  "Terminus".  I strongly reccomend this
one.  I used it as kind of a feeler to find out more about my players.

Spoiler below If you have'nt read Terminus: this will ruin it.

But here is how my version went:  The players are addigned to an OLD
starship.  An extremely old model 100 yrs+ that is no longer being
manufactured.  It seems that many years ago one of this model was lost
the crew died and was never recovered.  That incident has the equivalent
fame of the Titanic:  Books, movies, folklore.  It seems that the
captain was quite a successful and popular trader.

The players inspect their ship.  Though the ship is very old, the
registration number was issued in the last few weeks, the spaceworthyness
certificate issued the same time, the radio operation permit. etc etc.

She has just had a major overhaul.  The aft end has one brand new hull plate
still showing the welding scars.  In the engine room on the forward
bulkhead is a large new plate unpainted directly in line with the aft plate.
Foward of the engineering bulkhead there are some partitions which are new.
Foward of the partitions is another bulkhead with a hole in it which has been
plated over.  This continues through out the length of the ship and culminates
in a new hull plate in the foward end of the ship.

Basically, something hit the aft end of the ship and drilled its way forward
through the ship taking out everything in its path.

In the engine room there is a very old moronic engineering robot.  It creaks,
it breaks down, it moves erratically and it Stutters!

The players if they do a little detective work will eventually establish that
the ship was recently found adrift, towed in for salvage and was repaired.
The ship is in fact the same vessel as the one that was lost in the folklore.

Now the players start finging some of the inaedequacies of the ship.  The
power plant is brand new (the old one was in the line of the asteroid drill
hole.)  The Jump and maneuver drives are the original equipment.  The maneuver
drive is not thruster plates but anti-grav.  The plates will not give full
thrust even within the ten diameter limit, and outside it are very poor
indeed.  The jump drive was designed at tech 12 as a jump-3 drive, it was
built at tech 9.  It is Jump-3 capable, but the fuel consumption is big.
The purification plant takes longer than it is supposed to.  There is no
active EMS system, only radar.  Also missing is a passive EMS, and in its
place is a radar/radio diraction finder.  No densiometer, No Neutrino sensor.
The ship has artificial gravity, but no inertial compensators, (watch out for
cargo shifting!)  ((especially if the players are running arms, these guys had
a squadron of ten GR-1 Harriers aboard with air to ground munitions...))
There might be a few old TL 9 lasers mounted (visible wavelength).  Low
Berths of dubious utility.  The main computer is... Well... slow...

Computer:  Hold on, I forgot what I was going to say....

BOOM!

Computer:  Oh yeah, Hold on, an asteroid is about to hit the ship!

In maneuvering the ship is found to be a huge collection of noises.  Creaks,
groans, unexplained popping noises....

Anyway, the players first take the ship into jump.  It takes full power, ie
if you didn't practice jump dimming before, you damn well do now.
As the ship enters jump, the whole ship audibly groans.  And while the
crew is sitting around in the darkness, there starts up this eerie moaning.
(I used a tape of whale sounds and ran it when ever they were in jump)
At this point the players should be getting perhaps a little spooked...

After a bit of investigation it seems that the entire jump grid is vibrating.
(This exists nowhere in any trav product, I made it up.)  The phenomena is
known as 'Jumpsong' Apparantly, when a ship has spent Huge numbers of hours
in jump, the jump grid is affected by jump space.  Rather in the way that a
huge steel hull would be affected by the prescence of a large magnetic field.
The hull is closely interacting with jumpspace and is humming with the
interaction with it.  (Handwaving phyisics argument, but since jump space is
fiction, I can make up anything I want to.... So there!) {Actually, I just
wanted something to help create an eerie atmosphere...}

After a few watches in jump, the communications officer, anyone with commo,
pilot, recon, sensors, or applicable skills is awakened by an odd addition
to the noises the ship makes.  If they don't make a roll to recognise it,
they roll over and go back to sleep, having nightmares about the old dead
crew of the ship.

Finally someone is going to be awakened by this noise and recognise that it is
morse code...
Read out a transcript of a conversation in letters  A...R...E...Y...O...U...
T...H...E...R...E...?
The conversation is bettween two former officers of the ship.  ie the crew
who died aboard.  They are in vacc suits and running out of oxygen.  There
is a long pipe/power conduit that runs the length of the ship this is the
source of the morse vibrations but it will take a long time to locate (there
are an awful lot of sounds going on, plus bad accoustics)  Eventually, they
find the pipe, but the messages end before they can locate the source of the
noise.

From time to time these messages crop up and the players eventually trace the
pipe down to engineering.  There is the old engineering robot hammering
away at the pipe.  Note the robot has no communications skill and is not
aware of the fact he is signalling.  He was repairing a radiation leak in the
pipe line.  It is possible to communicate with the dead crew by signalling
on the pipe.  If someone does try, the 'ghosts' will frantically signal and
beg for help and oxygen.  They assume that a rescue party has boarded the
ship.

The Robot is the cause of all the mess.  It was aboard the ship at the time
of the asteroid strike and was unable to help crew and prevent them from
dying.  (First law of robotics?)  It has gone 'insane'  The only cure is to
replace the robots entire brain and programming.  The robot is not a threat
and will not harm anyone, but it will continue to broadcast the dying words
of the crew every time it has to repair a pipe.  (a common occurrance on
the ancient ship)

Some players I have had (who's background was D&D) assumed that the robot
was haunted.  And tried to exorcise the robot.  They tried explaining to
the robot what it was doing, It couldn't understand.  They then tried
explaining to the 'ghosts' that they were dead.  The 'ghosts' responce were
that they were very much alive and desparately needed help.

Other Players I have had correctly decided that it was a synaptic problem
and dumped the brain.  (They tried to do it piecemeal replacing what they
thought was damaged) It took a while, but the robot gradually went back
to its old ways until they replaced the brain and its programming.

I should warn you that while I had a lot of fun with this scene not all the
players did.  The D&D players bailed out, but those used to science fiction
role playing enjoyed it.

Admittedly I have been a player and gotten very BORED with some ship board
adventures.  We once found an alien ship and tried to access the computer.
We spent several hours pouring over it (one character had computer-5 I think)
and we managed to find the diagnostics port on it.  Maybe if I was a real
computer jock (Computer-0 that I am) I would have enjoyed it, but It just
seemed to go on forever (I hope the ref that ran it doesn't see this!)
	(Steve edit this!)
But problems caused by old ships can be a lot of fun if you have the right
kind of players.  If they can't get into it just dump it, you will
alienate the non-mechanically inclined in five seconds if you try.

The only published adventure (I know of) that deals with this stuff is in
High Passage 5 (a great adventure but the ship stuff is only a sideline)

Anyway, I found it fun, others will not according to their inclinations.


I hope this is useful or inspiring,

Mr. Scott
"That Vulcan won't be satisfied 'till these panels are a puddle of lead!"

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2676
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1991 18:33 -0500
From: SULAIMAN@ecs.umass.edu
Subject: Large ships and meson guns....

In answer to Rob Dean's letter:

> As it is--which comes first?  If I reduce armor
>then the enemy will build PA armed ships in their next procurement cycle, and
>I will have to uparmor mine to compensate, as well as be left with a bunch
>of vulnerable ships. 

1. Starting with a warship of 52G, agility 6; there is never any possibility of
criticals or interior explosions from any spinal PA via the regular damage
charts. Auto crits cease at 50kt or greater. This is with the largest spinal PA
at TL-15(T-PAWS).  
 
The penalization of having a spinal-PA goes beyond just not doing enough damage.
They take more volume and hardpoints and are much heavier in general than meson
guns. This more than overwhelms any advantage gained via a smaller power
requirement. 

On the defensive end, the armor consideration has to be balanced by the
tremendous increase in price, not just for the hull but also for the power-plant
and in crew spaces required to handle this extra increase. A ship designer while
increasing price to add armor should consider the increasing vulnerability to
meson guns and consider increasing the size of the vessel or just building
another one. 

> I think real designers faced with this problem would
>either a) accept the PA casualties for increased agility or b) routinely armor
>at such a level as to render PAs useless, and either solution would be
>acceptable.  

Agreed. However I would consider armoring to a level to render PAs ineffectual
but not to a level to render them totally useless. PAs can be forced into a
situation where their primary use is to be in a commerce raider type role where
typically unarmored vessels can be found, or against smaller craft where the size
difference overwhelms the armor protection. In the long run your fleet will be
better off as lightly armored(armor<60) with multiple very agile smaller craft
with meson and PA spinal weapons. In a way it is a compromise between the two
points mentioned above. 


Battle-tenders vs 'battleships':
>The retreat issue as discussed in old Trav is still valid though--

I am forced to agree but I'll add that if all ships are downscaled then a given
tender could carry more vessels and the ratio of riders lost while screening the
escaping ones can be improved. Their might also be a tendency to commit the
riders to battle first, before any jump capable ships engage. Thus they'll be the
first to be lost in any case leaving the tender with its options open. Finally
as jump drive size and its fuel requirement has gone down, it might be possible
to equip ALL riders with an emergency J-1 drive. They can even jump using their
original P-Plant fuel if it is a large enough amount. A rendezvous point could
be prearranged w/ the tender. In that case the tender might need to be carrying
excess fuel to allow it to do 3+ jumps without refuelling. 

>I tend to expect that fleets would run toward medium meson gun jump capable
>cruisers for forward system screens (which would run if disadvantaged) and
>rider squadrons to remain concentrated for the counterattack.  

See above for a different view.

>Battleships are very questionable.

Agreed. Atleast in the sense as we believe them to be currently (100ktons+).
Although we can now call anything over 50kt could be a battleship. Any spinal
vessel less than 50kton a cruiser etc.


>A reasonable specification system.  Note that thrust based maneuver 
>calculations can make it difficult to actually achieve 6-G in any ship 
>with even minimal (50+) armor.


That is your variant system. Which incidently means that atleast in your world
protection against meson guns or PA spinals is almost an exclusive or option.
You can be protected against one or the other but not both - atleast not in any
reasonable way. 

>Well, I might wish that you would include the Atlantis' 13 2kt+ riders and
>the several hundred fighters with comp-9s in the analysis, figuring that 
>these subcraft will act as a screen for a couple of rounds before the main
>ship actually joins combat.  After all, they are included in the price you're
>quoting for the price comparison.

Well, I hate to bring this up but in the final analysis the riders and the
fighters are irrelevant and barely worth it (but Glisten is loaded so who cares).
Here is what I got:

The Atlantis battleship is worth between 120 and 150 Sikkinthar SDBs, depending
on whether you go by price or total displacement. We'll take the smaller value.
All values are approximate and broadly rounded in favor of the Atlantis.

Assumption 1:
Atlantis uses its craft as screens, so it takes no part in initial combat.
At any stage if the Atlantis makes an appearance it will be immediately destroyed
as is clear enough from my earlier example. 

The 'Atlantis' class carry 3x10kt, 10x2kt, 6x200t, 15x50t, 250x40t

Assumption 2:
It is assumed that each of the 2000t+ ships is capable of destroying one SDB per
round(this is stretching it a bit far as the ration is more likely 3 ships to
destroy 1 SDB). All craft are agility 6 w/ Model 9 comps. 

Assumption 3:
All craft under 2000t are armed with missile turrets. The reasoning being that
it has the highest probabity of a hit at any range for a 1 or 2 turret craft. 

Round 1:
The 2000t+ craft destroy 13 SDBs. All the other craft combined achieve 23 hits.
It takes about 30 to strip the SDB. End of round 1, 14 SDB destroyed. 106 to go.
The SDBs achieve 40 hits with their missiles and 33 with their spinals. The 13
2kt+ ships are all destroyed as are atleast 40 fighters.

At this rate by the time the entire group will be destroyed in 6 rounds. At which
time there will be about 100 SDBs left. It only takes 5 to blast the Atlantis.
In fact about 50 SDBs of the Sikkinthar type will take out the entire group.

As Dean pointed out Atlantis is a poor design. This situation does not improve
if you take its entire group into account.

> My ships, at least, were High Guard
>conversions, and it should be remembered that it was easy under those
>rules to keep your agility up to the level of your maneuver drive _and_ have
>a reasonable armor class, so the ships mentioned above were not quite so
>crippled as they appear to be now.

Point well taken. But I guess (To belabor the point), not only is MT radically
different than High Guard in construction designs, it also changes the way in
which Space combat takes place.


>Please check my recent designs for the number of craft carrying armor 52
>for this reason...Your analysis is quite correct.  The other potentially
>useful armor values are 82 (minimum to avoid all surface damage from
>secondary weapons) and 100 (minimum to avoid all surface damage.)  I
>might calculate the mimimum necessary to avoid manuever hits from surface
>damage too.  Once again, the spectre of High Guard hovers over the fleets.

Usefulness aside, are they practical in the sense of combat. You may have 82
armor but someone with a "pocket" meson can blow your ship just as easily as a
as a 40 armor cargo ship except your ship cost and weighs 40 times more. High
agility at peak performance provides a more cost-effective defense than armor.
Instead of having agility as a secondary consideration, craft should be built for
agility with armor as an addon if it does not effect performance too much.


>Rob Dean

By some unfortunate coincidence I seemed to have picked all of Rob's design to
prove my theory on. It was an unfortunate coincidence. I'll try to be less
discriminatory in my next few postings. 

I'll also try to put up some warships meeting my requirements as soon as they are
done. 


Ameer


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2677
From: MacGyver <macgyver@cis.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: MegaTraveller II demo
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 91 8:15:05 EDT

I've uploaded a demo of the upcoming MegaTraveller II computer role playing
game for IBM to sunbane. It should be available by now. It requires an 
IBM or compatible PC, with VGA monitor.

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2678
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1991 11:33 CDT
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: Planetary Bombardment


It's time for my 2 cents again on this one...

In the 5th Frontier War, The High Council of the Zhodani Consulate was
trying to give the Imperium a bloody nose to get the message, "Don't
Mess With Us!" across.  Their mission is to prevent the Imperium from
attacking the Consulate.  You don't do that by whipping your opponant
into a war fever where the only way he will be safe is if he exterminates
you.

On the other hand, the Zhodani Troops are in the field to liberate the
people of the Imperium from their oppressive government.  The people
are not allowed to use a science that would keep them safe and happy,
anyone who does use this science or even if they just have a talent for
it gets lobotomized by the evil Imperial government.  Now you don't
liberate a group of people by exterminating them, do you?

This is why the Zhodani never used projectiles at one tenth the speed
of light (remember at that speed 1kg projectile =100ktons TNT) to
destroy Efate, Jewell, Regina, Rhylanor, Glisten, etc, etc.  Their
commerce raiders could have done it easily. but they did not.

Scott S Kellogg

PS  Just who is this Steve Kellog????  I'd like to meet him...

Come on you guys!  You see my name on your breakfast table every morning
and you can't spell it?!?!?!?

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2679
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 91 11:44:01 -0700
From: brianm@ism.isc.COM (brian makens)
Subject: Megatraveller II computer game

Possible spoilers - be warned

Well, I just plunked down the money and bought the new traveller
computer game "secret of the ancients".  The game action is similiar
to the original computer game, except much of the arcade action is
stripped out.

The game has more of a role playing flavor to it, the introduction is
quite amusing and graphics is much better. Wandering around a city is like
controlling your own little party as they wander around a SimCity city.
Actually, that is one of my peeves on this game, the party is some times
difficult to see, particularily at higher zoom out layers.

Combat is quite simplified from the previous game. Players will do their
own shooting, and assign themselves tasks both on the ground and in
ship. Ship combat is no longer like "Mayday". You no longer have to
worry about courses and acceleration. You just tell the ship byu menu where
you want to go. Combat between ships is a lot more interesting to watch!

You can have a party made up of both Vargr and Humans, and they have
faces ala some of the TSR AD&D computer games.

You have a lot more worlds (118) than the first game, but systems are like
paper traveller before scounts or world builder handbook. "Just the main
world, Maam". Worlds are bigger and usually have more than one city. A lot of
wee little folk(npc's) wandering around to stumble into. City buildings
reflect tech level.

The user interface is activated by 4 icons, which bring up a menu each.

I actually like this game better than the original. Worlds are a lot more
interesting and the role playing flavor is stronger by far. Much
improved over the  original version.

Brian Makens, INTERACTIVE Systems Corp., Calabasas, Ca., (818) 880-1200
			brianm@kobito.ivy.isc.com


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2680
Subject: DGP Product Info
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 91 20:48:23 PDT
From: Carl Fago <carlf@agora.rain.COM>

This was posted on GEnie recently and thought it would be of interest to
those on the TML...

Category 11,  Topic 3
Message 334       Mon Jul 22, 1991
DIGEST.GROUP [Jay Adan]      at 20:00 EDT
 
DGP MegaTraveller Update

     By the time you read this, MegaTraveller Journal #2 should be available
in your local stores. Subscriptions should be arriving about now as well. 
     Things are coming together quicker than I expected for Journal #3. It
looks like we may be able to make a late November release date with it. That
will put it about two months ahead of our planned schedule.
     For those of you who panicked at the news that the Journal was being
released irregularly, but that we were striving for a bi-annual frequency: the
pendulum swings both ways. Six months is the "mean" period we're targeting,
but if we CAN publish it sooner, we will. 
     At any rate, I'm pretty pleased with the way the content's shaping up.
And for those of you who are preparing to send SASE's for your DoD stats (see
Journal#2's Helm Report), save your stamps! Journal#3 will be publishing them -
 possibly as a pull-out supplement. Other goodies include a Worldguide for
Vincennes and a new alien minor race in the Domain by William H. Keith, Jr.
     We've straightened out our problems with the SOLOMANI & ASLAN manuscript
and are currently targeting that book for a September release. I can't wait to
see that one finished myself. Visually, it should really outshine VILANI &
VARGR. Not only are the illustrations more numerous, but they're being done by
two of the game's best illustrators, Blair Reynolds (FLAMING EYE and DEFYING
THE WOLF [MTJ#2 adventure]) doing the Solomani and Mike Vilardi (KNIGHTFALL,
THE NORRIS INTERVIEW, and SNAPSHOTS OF THE OCCUPATION [MTJ#2]) doing the
Aslan. Some of you who made it ORIGINS may have got the chance to see the art
for the Aslan section, as it was being worked on at our booth. The cover will
be by Dell Harris (MTJ#1 cover).
     For those of you waiting for THE BEST OF THE TRAVELLERS' DIGEST, we've
back-burnered that product until we hit (IF we hit) a lull in MTJ submissions.
We'll announce that one as soon as we establish a firm date.

- - --Rob Caswell
 ------------

Category 11,  Topic 3
Message 335       Wed Jul 24, 1991
DIGEST.GROUP [Staff]         at 23:01 EDT
 
Delays, delays, delays...
     Well, I don't like to report them any more that you like to hear them.
However, it looks like, after critically assessing the state of the Solomani &
Aslan manuscript, that that product won't be hitting stores until late October-
early November. The set back is a result of some unforseen editorial juggling.

- - --Rob
 ------------


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2681
From: Simon Anderson <cse426@cck.coventry.ac.uk>
Subject: High-speed Spaceguns
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 91 14:18:10 WET DST

Leonard Erickson writes :
Subject: (2670) How to kill a battleship...

> A *big* mass  driver  on  an  asteriod  hull.  It  fired  multi  kilogram
> projectiles  at  say  10  km/sec or better. They were aimed as a "time on
> target" barrage. Sure, it takes *months* for them to  arrive  on  target.
> So  what?  You  *cannot*  armor  against a several kilo projectile with a
> relative velocity in the tens of km/sec. And all a big ship gets  you  is
> the  chance  to  intercept more of these "rocks".If we assume high TLs in
> traveller, I bet we could boost  these  things  to  a  high  fraction  of
> lightspeed.  In  which  cause they are equivalent to a nuke! And they are
> *inherently* stealthed. Scratch any ship  whose  moves  you  can  predict
> sufficiently  far  in  advance.  True, this is *definitely * limited to a
> "Pearl Harbor" scenario, but they can  happen...  say  just  as  the  big
> naval manuevers get underway? 

The  drawback  with  this method of attack might well be that space isn't
entirely a vaccum. Interplanetary dust and gasses will  tend  to  collide
with  the  projectiles,  and while this is no real problem at low speeds,
it gets worse as the projectile ( or spaceship ) gets faster. 

At a high fraction of lightspeed, the projectile will have to be made  of
something  very  special  if  it  is  not  to  be  ripped  apart  by such
collisions, and it will certainly radiate *lots * of  energy  from  them.
As  for  a  defence  against  such  things,  once they have been detected
smashing their way through space, how about an old-fashioned  sandcaster?

The  impact  with  all  those  particles  will  the  projectile  no  good
whatsoever,   and  if  it  can  somehow  survive  those  impacts  at  0.1
lightspeed then it's  time  to  fall  back  on  repulsors  ,  lasers  and
throwing the kitchen sink at it :-)

Perhaps someone with more astronomical know-how could let us know what
you're likely to run into travelling through a crowded solar-system at
such speeds, and what the impacts will do ?

			Simon Anderson

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